Turfway Stigma

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Agreed on all counts.

I don't think I want to buy a 7 figure yearling and run him over that surface if he is bred top and bottom to like the dust.

The Astro-turf trend passed, and this will too.

The more and more I think about it, the more I agree that it is a money thing like you have pointed out so many times.

In the end, the higher-ups don't make the safety of $5,000 claimers their top priority.

This "safer for the horses" thing will be cited as the reason over and over again.

The article written by the Janks woman from Arlington summed it up pretty good for me. If we would stop letting redneck trainers enter horses who have been neglected and can barely stand up, the breakdowns would decrease.

Mood,
Janks spoke what so many people in the business have told me repeatedly.
At the Spa I asked a life long racetrack guy whos trained grade one winners about it and he said the exact same damn thing that Janks said, as if he had read her article.
Bob Fox, now a regular on Steves radio show, replied that he was one of the few outspoken polytrack critics on the record.
Many trainers feel like janks but are afraid to be outspoken about it.
All they need is deeper dirt. And yes mood, catering to the lowest end of your market(cheap claimers) so that they can make more starts makes very little sense to me. At cheap tracks perhaps. But you don't rearrange the whole game to suit the very cheapest group of your overall product.

You guys are way off base regarding a synthetic surface. Again, some tracks need it and some don't. Turfway, Woodbine are two tracks who needed. Handle was up at Turfway and so was the field size. So far, field size and handle is up at Woodbine. Winter tracks that are C tracks need the stuff. Those type of tracks get the cheap claimers. The owners and trainers cannot afford top notch vet care or to have the horse not race. In this theory, a synthetic surface is good. Saratoga, Churchill, Santa Anita etc etc do not need a synthetic surface. I really feel those surfaces are top notch. Heck, Churchill puts silk in their surface to keep is softer. A synthetic surface is an alternative to dirt racing, just like turf is an alternative. It isnt going to replace dirt. Breeding will be fine. Handle will be fine and field size will be fine.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

You guys are way off base regarding a synthetic surface. Again, some tracks need it and some don't. Turfway, Woodbine are two tracks who needed. Handle was up at Turfway and so was the field size. So far, field size and handle is up at Woodbine. Winter tracks that are C tracks need the stuff. Those type of tracks get the cheap claimers. The owners and trainers cannot afford top notch vet care or to have the horse not race. In this theory, a synthetic surface is good. Saratoga, Churchill, Santa Anita etc etc do not need a synthetic surface. I really feel those surfaces are top notch. Heck, Churchill puts silk in their surface to keep is softer. A synthetic surface is an alternative to dirt racing, just like turf is an alternative. It isnt going to replace dirt. Breeding will be fine. Handle will be fine and field size will be fine.

Euro,

Earlier in the thread I stated that I don't care what they want the cheap horses to run on. It doesn't bother me that the surface is at Turfway per se.

What concerns me is the possibility of it moving to the larger circuits that hold Grade One races and attract genuine stakes performers. I don't think this business model will work if that is the plan.

If I didn't make that clear earlier, I apologize. For Turfway's sake, I hope the rubber track does help their business.

But in a perfect world, I wouldn't mind seeing the numbers of races go down and the bottom level claimers and bad horses phased out of the game.

Less races, higher quality, higher purses, healthier horses, better and accountable trainers.

Just because some guy wants to be a trainer, and some other guy wants to be an owner, doesn't mean that it should be so. A cheap, sore, and slow horse shouldn't have an arena where he is allowed to run in my opinion.

While it may not be the most popular opinion to have, I believe that American Racing suffers from four major problems.

1. Too many races
2. Too many racetracks
3. Too little money to go around
4. Too many Shi tty horses

I think there needs to be a solution to these problems, and when the money runs out the smaller tracks will go out of business and get out of the way.

Slots and state-bred incentive programs are like a life-support system, the brain is dead but the body keeps pumping along.

Let racing stand on its own merits, I say.

And separate the wheat from the chaff.

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Euro,

Earlier in the thread I stated that I don't care what they want the cheap horses to run on. It doesn't bother me that the surface is at Turfway per se.

What concerns me is the possibility of it moving to the larger circuits that hold Grade One races and attract genuine stakes performers. I don't think this business model will work if that is the plan.

If I didn't make that clear earlier, I apologize. For Turfway's sake, I hope the rubber track does help their business.

But in a perfect world, I wouldn't mind seeing the numbers of races go down and the bottom level claimers and bad horses phased out of the game.

Less races, higher quality, higher purses, healthier horses, better and accountable trainers.

Just because some guy wants to be a trainer, and some other guy wants to be an owner, doesn't mean that it should be so. A cheap, sore, and slow horse shouldn't have an arena where he is allowed to run in my opinion.

While it may not be the most popular opinion to have, I believe that American Racing suffers from four major problems.

1. Too many races
2. Too many racetracks
3. Too little money to go around
4. Too many Shi tty horses

I think there needs to be a solution to these problems, and when the money runs out the smaller tracks will go out of business and get out of the way.

Slots and state-bred incentive programs are like a life-support system, the brain is dead but the body keeps pumping along.

Let racing stand on its own merits, I say.

And separate the wheat from the chaff.

A synthetic surface will not go to the best tracks. Gulfstream, all New York Tracks, Oaklawn wont go to it. I really think that Cali has jumped the gun her. But we need to let cheaper horses race. People deserve jobs and the dream of owning a horse. I dont make much money, but cheaper horses has enabled me to be a part owner of a horse. The business shouldnt only be for the rich. However, I agree there is too much racing and too many tracks.

Euro you aren't making sense.
Of course its intended to be a dirt replacement and you know why.
No track that currently exists has the room to simply add a polytrack strip. There is no dirt option at any track that uses poly. Its ripped up to be replaced by Poly.
Since no track exists with the room to do this, it most certainly is marketed and intended to be a dirt replacement.
Turfway and Woodbine no longer offer the option of dirt racing to horsemen, I'd say that makes it a replacement.

If I was racing secretary. I would race 4 times a week. I would have 9 races per card. I would race on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Thursday would be dedicated to maiden claiming and claiming races. Firday I would have claiming and maiden claiming and throw in a couple of low level allowance races. Saturday would be nothing but high level allowance and stakes races. On Sunday I would run mid level allowance races with one nice stake and I would always end the day with a MSW to close out the pick 6.

[quote=oracle80]Euro you aren't making sense.
Of course its intended to be a dirt replacement and you know why.
No track that currently exists has the room to simply add a polytrack strip. There is no dirt option at any track that uses poly. Its ripped up to be replaced by Poly.
Since no track exists with the room to do this, it most certainly is marketed and intended to be a dirt replacement.
Turfway and Woodbine no longer offer the option of dirt racing to horsemen, I'd say that makes it a replacement.[/QUOTE I dont see it that way at all.

[tiznowthegreat]

While it's not a great track to visit and watch live racing, I don't understand how people could suggest that the track is done and to stick a fork in it. The handle increased 62% last year with the installation of Polytrack. I see in no way how that signifies the track being done and finished.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by tiznowthegreat

While it's not a great track to visit and watch live racing, I don't understand how people could suggest that the track is done and to stick a fork in it. The handle increased 62% last year with the installation of Polytrack. I see in no way how that signifies the track being done and finished.

I don't think it is anywhere close to done....

I just think it is unfortunate that it exists. But, as always, that is just an opinion. And I could change that opinion in 3 days or 3 years.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by tiznowthegreat

While it's not a great track to visit and watch live racing, I don't understand how people could suggest that the track is done and to stick a fork in it. The handle increased 62% last year with the installation of Polytrack. I see in no way how that signifies the track being done and finished.

It increased only because they had less cancellations, also the Winter of 2004-2005 was bad, so they missed alot of days that year, massive snowstorm(for Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky hit that year), so the increase is due only to weather related, not because of the business model, I have said this many times...Also, the property that Turfway sits on is very valuable for retail, it sits right off of I-75 and many people are moving out that way, once this Poly-Track fails miserably, they will be a Super Wal-Mart in less than 5 years...

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I don't think it is anywhere close to done....

I just think it is unfortunate that it exists. But, as always, that is just an opinion. And I could change that opinion in 3 days or 3 years.

I'll quote myself here.

I think the above post was a bit harsh. I don't think it is unfortunate that it exists as a racetrack.

I think the "state of the industry" as a whole is unfortunate as I outlined earlier in the thread.

I wouldn't like to steal anyone's joy of having a lower level horse win at Turfway, but overall I don't agree with the current state of affairs.

And D. Wayne and Dallas Stewart aren't stabled up there because it is some great place to be.

They are needing wins for their expensive stock against lesser competition.

Anybody got the over/under on how many wins those two combine for over the meet?

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

It increased only because they had less cancellations, also the Winter of 2004-2005 was bad, so they missed alot of days that year, massive snowstorm(for Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky hit that year), so the increase is due only to weather related, not because of the business model, I have said this many times...Also, the property that Turfway sits on is very valuable for retail, it sits right off of I-75 and many people are moving out that way, once this Poly-Track fails miserably, they will be a Super Wal-Mart in less than 5 years...

Highest and best use........

It sure isn't Turfway Park.

[pmayjr]

Ok... well say Trufway were to close for whatever reason. Would there be another KY track to take it's place? Trufway is tacky, but I love those crud claimers. I hope it doesn't close.

[tiznowthegreat]

It is incorrect to say it is just because of weather. That was the reason in such a drastic increase, but the handle per day was up quite a bit as well. Like it has been said, there is not much racing going on when Turfway is active in the midwest, and it serves it's purpose as a second tier racetrack for some very good trainers. It is in now way anywhere close to becoming a Walmart in 5 years.

[pmayjr]

Besides... and I swear I'm serious about this.... there's a Walmart already there... like within a half-mile of where the track is. No joke hehe. But is it a Super-Walmart? No. Maybe if it were a Super Wal-mart lol

there is actually a super walmart that was just built pretty close...lol no joke. I watched Likely work on the 5th and he looked pretty sharp over the track, think he worked 4F.