Closed Minds

King Glorious · #1 05-03-2008, 09:55 PM

Sorry that Eight Belles died.

More people should open their eyes. In the rest of the world, fillies face the boys with success all the time. Only in this closed minded country is it looked at as a stupid move. I hope Eight Belles' performance today helps to change the minds of some people. I hate getting called stupid like I did when I suggested that the top fillies this year could run with the boys. She didn't win but she was far clear of the rest of the field and it took a potential superhorse to beat her. The decision to run here here was absolutely the right one. Hopefully now, we see Proud Spell facing the boys in races like the Haskell and Travers. She's at least as good as Eight Belles is and that's better than any male that will be in those races later, save for Big Brown.

horseofcourse · #2 05-03-2008, 10:10 PM

I obvously agree...but I think it will have the opposite effect. You already see the "see what happens when fillies run against colts" posts. The only way to keep breakdowns from happening is to end racing completely. I prefer to think of this breakdown as a coinscidence like most other breakdowns rather than turn it into a "see how cruel it is to run fillies against colts" event.

King Glorious · #3 05-03-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I obvously agree...but I think it will have the opposite effect. You already see the "see what happens when fillies run against colts" posts. The only way to keep breakdowns from happening is to end racing completely. I prefer to think of this breakdown as a coinscidence like most other breakdowns rather than turn it into a "see how cruel it is to run fillies against colts" event.

People that say that are just being stupid. If that were the case, every female that has run against the boys would break down. The truth is that this is just a part of the game. Always has been and always will be. I'm pretty sure I've seen males break down at the end of races too. Just happens. Some will even say it's because of her breeding. More foolishness. Those same people said before the race that she wouldn't even be able to compete because of her breeding and she did that and some.

RolloTomasi · #4 05-03-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm pretty sure I've seen males break down at the end of races too. Just happens. Some will even say it's because of her breeding. More foolishness.

Certainly a horse's pedigree influences several characteristics that make a racehorse vulnerable to soundness issues.

Oaklawnfan · #5 05-03-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I obvously agree...but I think it will have the opposite effect. You already see the "see what happens when fillies run against colts" posts. The only way to keep breakdowns from happening is to end racing completely. I prefer to think of this breakdown as a coinscidence like most other breakdowns rather than turn it into a "see how cruel it is to run fillies against colts" event.

I must disagree, this sad event may actually put a fire under some to run their top quality ladies against the boys.
Eight Belles, May God Rest Her Soul, was a racehorse through and through. She went the gate to win and gave her best. Anytime a Filly has a shot at winning a Triple Crown Race it's good for the sport.

Peace 8 Belles.

King Glorious · #6 05-03-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Certainly a horse's pedigree influences several characteristics that make a racehorse vulnerable to soundness issues.

They can, to be sure. But to blame this on that would be foolish, IMO. It's not that cut and dried.

brianwspencer · #7 05-03-2008, 11:47 PM

KG, I couldn't agree more and have had the same conversation around my house today.

She didn't break down because she was a filly facing the boys. Ask Pine Island. Every racing nation in the world sees fillies against the boys all the time, and it's not a bad idea and it doesn't lead to mass filly casualties.

I knew it was going to be a silly blamefest once she broke down, and yes, it's a terrible bout of PR because she's the sentimental choice for so many today. The fact remains that she fit the race perfectly, she proved that perfectly, and she broke down. It shouldn't change anything about thinking whether or not fillies can run with boys. I frankly think it's silly and irrational to try to go on a witch hunt over this when horses break down all the time, for a variety of reasons -- but that's not going to stop plenty of people from doing so.

SCUDSBROTHER · #8 05-03-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They can, to be sure. But to blame this on that would be foolish, IMO. It's not that cut and dried.

Concrete....I said it when I woke up and saw the track playing like it was.2 fillies hurt in 2 days.Hard sealed track yesterday,and they didn't want to open it up enough today.If you want to think it's just 2 fillies randomly breaking down,then fine.I don't think it's random.

RolloTomasi · #9 05-03-2008, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They can, to be sure. But to blame this on that would be foolish, IMO. It's not that cut and dried.

I'm not sure if anyone specifically said pedigree alone resulted in her breakdown, but that wouldn't have been any more foolish than saying that these things "just happen".

That's not to say that what happened today was particularly predictable, either.

ArlJim78 · #10 05-04-2008, 04:14 AM

kg, you always make it a personal thing, like you said you hate being called stupid for saying that the top fillies could run with the boys. some can, some can't. one who couldn't was Indian Blessing who you had in your top 5 for the derby at one point. should she have also ran in the derby? I'm sorry but that was a clear case of a filly that should not have run against the boys. if you want credit for being so open-minded, just remember that if it were up to you you would have sent a hopelessly overmatched distance challenged filly into a 10F race that she had no chance of winning.

i saw nothing wrong with running Eight Belles in the derby and thought she fit very well and had a chance to upset the field, Proud Spell would also have done well this year. but this was a weak group of boys this year.

I don't see it as people being closed minded about running against the boys, and I don't think its like some big knock that the top fillies don't run against the boys. there is great money to be made running against the females and you don't get any extra credit for running in the Travers or Haskell.

King Glorious · #11 05-04-2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

kg, you always make it a personal thing, like you said you hate being called stupid for saying that the top fillies could run with the boys. some can, some can't. one who couldn't was Indian Blessing who you had in your top 5 for the derby at one point. should she have also ran in the derby? I'm sorry but that was a clear case of a filly that should not have run against the boys. if you want credit for being so open-minded, just remember that if it were up to you you would have sent a hopelessly overmatched distance challenged filly into a 10F race that she had no chance of winning.

i saw nothing wrong with running Eight Belles in the derby and thought she fit very well and had a chance to upset the field, Proud Spell would also have done well this year. but this was a weak group of boys this year.

I don't see it as people being closed minded about running against the boys, and I don't think its like some big knock that the top fillies don't run against the boys. there is great money to be made running against the females and you don't get any extra credit for running in the Travers or Haskell.

I had IB in my top five 3yo's and when it became clear to me that 10f wouldn't be in her scope, I took her out of my Derby favorite lists. Same thing with War Pass. Same with El Gato Malo. Had nothing to do with her being a female. It was the distance questions. After she lost the Louisiana race, I wouldn't have pressed her on to the Derby so saying that is incorrect. All three that I just mentioned, after their final preps I was strongly against them continuing on the Derby path. Does that mean that Indian Blessing can't run against the boys? Absolutely not. But if she's ever put in against the boys, say in the King's Bishop instead of the Test, I can guarantee that there will be plenty saying she needs to be facing the girls, just like there were plenty saying Eight Belles should have been in the Oaks. If your reasoning is because you don't think they are good enough, fine. I can respect that. But when it's simply because they are girls, I think a boat is sailing out there without you.

johnny pinwheel · #12 05-04-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Concrete....I said it when I woke up and saw the track playing like it was.2 fillies hurt in 2 days.Hard sealed track yesterday,and they didn't want to open it up enough today.If you want to think it's just 2 fillies randomly breaking down,then fine.I don't think it's random.

niether do i . dirt racing is a rough game. running over the dirt track is not the horses natural habitat. its not a "freak" thing when so many fillies have either broke down or lost careers going vs. the boys. it does not matter if they are as fast or can win, the toll and stress it puts on the horse is too much. these good horses have alot of heart and will, in competition they willl push themselves over the edge. people might want to see them win , but its not worth the horses well being to do so . i also think its not good for racing. many people that don't follow the game were watching yesterday, including kids. they saw a horse that would of been a champ with her own kind. laying on the track. its still a game , its not a war. its not worth the risk.

zippyneedsawin · #13 05-04-2008, 07:45 AM

Eight Belles finished 2nd in the KY Derby.. she proved she belonged in that race.

horseofcourse · #14 05-04-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

niether do i . dirt racing is a rough game. running over the dirt track is not the horses natural habitat. its not a "freak" thing when so many fillies have either broke down or lost careers going vs. the boys. it does not matter if they are as fast or can win, the toll and stress it puts on the horse is too much. these good horses have alot of heart and will, in competition they willl push themselves over the edge. people might want to see them win , but its not worth the horses well being to do so . i also think its not good for racing. many people that don't follow the game were watching yesterday, including kids. they saw a horse that would of been a champ with her own kind. laying on the track. its still a game , its not a war. its not worth the risk.

I do not understand this mentality. Running against your own kind does not eliminate breakdowns. I honestly thought Union City and Prairie Bayou were running against their own kind in back to back TC races a while ago?? I honestly thought Pine Island and Fleet Indian were running against their own kind in the same race when they broke down?? George Washington last year?? You're adding 3 and 3 and coming up with 8. Horses break down in workouts as well against nobody. Who was that great Baffert 2 yr old that happened to a few years back?? Breakdowns are not going to disappear when fillies stop running against males. Running is stressful on the legs of a horse and everyone knows it. And everyone knows this is going to happen sporadically. It is quite a shame I agree it happened at the Derby.