Capital OTB discontinues free PP's

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

I know this may sound "cheap" to some...but I was disappointed to recieve a e-mail from Capital OTB today saying that they will no longer provide free past performances from tracks they are covering. It was due to contractual issues . Now, they will charge $1.00 a day for the same product that was free. They'll deduct $7.00 a week from your phone-a-bet account.
Grant it, the PP's weren't like DRF or BRISNET, but since I was getting them for the past year, I tend to wager more during the week. I believe, like in Vegas where some sort of PP's are free to the wager public as a "perk", the more you provide for the bettor...the more he'll play. I guess this gives me a good reason to cut back on my wagering for the spring and summer until Saratoga. All this might sound petty, but it's the principle to me.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well honestly and no offense to anyone that has an affiliation to OTB, they really haven't shown that they really care about the bettor anyway. In most parlors you're lucky to have the scratches put up. Good luck getting someone working in a parlor to accomodate you at all. I wasn't aware they even sent you PP's, but I assume the fact they are now charging is in connection with the fact they no longer are giving away free PP's in the clubhouse at the teletheatre. Doesn't effect me at all as I am a DRF guy anyway, but $1 a day isn't that bad. I agree with the principle thing but a buck seems sort of reasonable for PP's a day.

Agree...the price isn't the problem for what you get. And your right about the scratches and results, especially at the Teletheater and the Woodlawn branch...they usual post them up front by the cashiers. Christ, the Fort Plain branch the last hour it's open has all the PP sheets taken down so you can't get the results if you walk in. I played more when I got the PP's via e-mail...I guess it's time for a break!

[MisterB]

I recieved the same letter, I am not going to use their account any longer. They will feel the impact, but I think they are under the GUN from other agency's in a law dispute.

Anyway, I never really used them. I think I am going to activate my NYRA account when Belmont opens.

[parsixfarms]

Based on conversations that I've had with a few of the marketing people at the Teletheater, it seems that this is a copyright issue with the Track-Data people who produce the PPs. That being said, the issue is really about OTB paying to redistribute the PPs. Rather than assuming that burden itself, it is asking the customers to pay for something OTB would be better off providing as a courtesy for its better players. No doubt that its handle will be adversely impacted. When you consider how much OTB gets from each dollar bet, this is yet another example of them being pennywise but pound foolish.

[pmayjr]

If it means anything, they're not bullshittin you about contractual obligations. Canterbury quit giving out free scratch sheets (post positions, morning line odds, at each track on the simulcast schedule) a couple of months ago due to having those same "contractual issues" with Equibase. They charge 50 cents for them now.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

If it means anything, they're not bullshittin you about contractual obligations. Canterbury quit giving out free scratch sheets (post positions, morning line odds, at each track on the simulcast schedule) a couple of months ago due to having those same "contractual issues" with Equibase. They charge 50 cents for them now.

I'm not suggesting that they are are BSing about the contractual obligations. What I am saying is that rather than forcing the bettors to dig into their pockets to pay for the PPs, OTB would be better served by paying its contractual partners for the right to redistribute them to its patrons. The lost percentage of handle (and keep in mind that OTB gets in excess of 10 cents of every dollar wagered) is likely to far outweigh the cost to OTB of providing the PPs to its best players free of charge.

[Linny]

Under copyright laws, Capital, (or any other agency distributing such data) would be forced not to eat the $1 cost abut the cost of 4 sets of PP's multiplied by the number of customers who get them. If 1000 patrons are getting the pp's and each track costs (hypothetically) $.50, then they are eating $2000 per day. Based on that number, Capital would need to be handling over $200k in bets generated by those pp's. Charging $1 for the information allows them to avoid a copyright lawsuit for distributing copyrighted material for free. Capital may buy it from Track-Data but that doesn't allow it's free distribution.

Honestly, I have never quite understood the concept of free info. If you are going to the track you buy a Form or or download pps (for a fee!) or buy a program when you get there. OTB's got in the habit of hanging pages of the Form on the walls back in the 70's, something NO RACETRACK I know of has ever done. When the Form threathened action, some OTB's stopped. The idea was that "limited" free info was OK for some but that most customers would be frustrated with sharing pages of a pulled apart Form with the rest of the place and would but their own.

From Mister B
"I recieved the same letter, I am not going to use their account any longer. They will feel the impact, but I think they are under the GUN from other agency's in a law dispute.

Anyway, I never really used them. I think I am going to activate my NYRA account when Belmont opens.
04-19-2007 10:09 PM "

You never used the pp's but even though you are NOT effected by the change, you wont use Capital any more. You will use NYRA. Will they send you free data daily for 4 of the most popular tracks? Would you leave them if they started charing $1 for such info?

Overall, I would not be surprised to see more issues like this in racing. It's a data driven game and companies that compile and store data are becoming more and more aware of it's widespread distribution. I liken it to the music industry. When I was a kid I copied a favorite song onto cassette tapes from the radio. No one really cared. With computers making file sharing easy music companies went berserk over free distribution of their product. The very liberal use and distribution of racing data has become a problem for the owners/compilers of the data and we will see more of these problems.

Rather than me angry about a free service being removed, be thankful that it was available free for a time.

When threatened with leagl action that could but the company out of business any company would do the same thing. They have to "make right" on the contractual agreement or come under penalty.

For the point of view of the owner of such data, maybe BTW or someone else associted w/ the Form may have more info.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

I understand where you coming from and the position you're in. It is just a "buck" a day, but since the information was provided "free" of charge, I played five out of seven day week and even sometimes six. Before that, it was just the weekend and during the week if I saw something interesting. But, now I may cut back on wagering because it won't be there, plus summer is coming and got "other" things to do. Capital does do more than it's share for it's patrons, but I guess the "bottom line" does mean more. I still think, the more that is provided "free of charge" by the wagering outlets and racetracks...the more new people will be attracted to the sport. The "racscinos" tend to do that for their customers.

[Linny]

I agree that "casino based" gambling like racinos do far more for their patrons and that racing on the whole, not just a given OTB MUST find a way to do more for their patrons or risk becoming a minor sideshow to slot parlors.
Parking is free at casinos and costs at tracks. You can buy one one or two decent books on betting strategies and be set for essentially a lifetime of table games and slots. You don't need a $5 paper evertime you enter the casino.
The churn produced by slots pays for free drinks and food and pretty chadeliers while the relatively slow pace of racing means expensive eats and cement floors at tracks.
Remember too, that most OTB's across the country came into being as part of the racing industry, not the gaming industry. They measure themselves, traditionally against racetracks, not against casinos. Parking and admission at the track was $4 to $8 and free at OTB. Programs cost $1 + on track and were posted on the walls at OTB's. OTB's offered several tracks and on track patrons had only the live product. Many OTB's provided some published selections for free as well, which tracks didn't, except in the program that you paid for. (I realize tha many people complain about poor tellers etc at OTB's and I'm sure the same percentage applies at tracks. The problem is that OTB's usually only have 3 or so tellers so you might have no choice but to use one you dislike, at a track you have far more options.)
In the last decade with casinos and racinos everwhere, suddenly the OTB experience looks dreadful by comparison. Twenty years ago, only a small percentage of the population had ever been to a casino. You had to go to Vegas or Atlantic City and unless you were really into gaming or just out for a "lark" it was more of a special occasion to gamble. Now with "Indian" casinos every 100 miles it's hard to find someone who hasn't been to a casino. Lat's face it, OTB's AND racetracks (w/the glaring exception of a few) all look pretty raunchy by comparison.

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by MisterB

I recieved the same letter, I am not going to use their account any longer. They will feel the impact, but I think they are under the GUN from other agency's in a law dispute.

Anyway, I never really used them. I think I am going to activate my NYRA account when Belmont opens.

Mr. B,

Any idea how NYRA accounts are going to work? Phone and internet? Rewards?

Thanks

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

Mr. B,

Any idea how NYRA accounts are going to work? Phone and internet? Rewards?

Thanks

Found the site. Looks like they have phone and internet. Cash rewards appear to start at $2k per month. Don't think I would make that most months with the exception of August.

Wonder if they will hook up account holders with free track gear, track passes etc. I'm certainly not married to OTB...

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Well, I guess "they" aren't sending the free PP's for Keeneland anymore...got them yesterday just before 11
and didn't get any today...was getting them the day before.
I'm not paying for anything if I don't recieve them on a timely manner.
It was something I looked forward to in my "inbox" each day.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Props to Capital OTB for reinstating the free PP's for it's phone-a-bet customers!
It's good to know that someone is listening to the bettors out there!

BRAVO!

[MisterB]

You mean this e-mail??

Dear Friend:

We are currently reviewing our new Past Performance policy. We hope to have this complimentary service restored to qualifying phone-a-bet patrons who use their Capital OTB account on a regular basis. If you would like to be considered to receive this service at no cost to you, please submit your contact information below. The same PPs will be e-mailed daily to qualifying subscribers! We want to make sure that ONLY Capital OTB regular phone-a-bet customers are receiving this product.

Click HERE to apply for FREE e-mailed Past-Performances!

We apologize for the brief cancellation of the previous PP subscriptions to our valued phone-a-bet patrons, and appreciate the suggestions that were submitted in regard to the restoration of these important services.

Please provide Marketing with the required information, your name, Capital OTB phone-a-bet account number (Click on HERE above) to be considered for restoration of FREE PPs. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,

Capital OTB Marketing

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by MisterB

You mean this e-mail??

Dear Friend:

We are currently reviewing our new Past Performance policy. We hope to have this complimentary service restored to qualifying phone-a-bet patrons who use their Capital OTB account on a regular basis. If you would like to be considered to receive this service at no cost to you, please submit your contact information below. The same PPs will be e-mailed daily to qualifying subscribers! We want to make sure that ONLY Capital OTB regular phone-a-bet customers are receiving this product.

Click HERE to apply for FREE e-mailed Past-Performances!

We apologize for the brief cancellation of the previous PP subscriptions to our valued phone-a-bet patrons, and appreciate the suggestions that were submitted in regard to the restoration of these important services.

Please provide Marketing with the required information, your name, Capital OTB phone-a-bet account number (Click on HERE above) to be considered for restoration of FREE PPs. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,

Capital OTB Marketing

Yes -

[dagulla]

I dont know if this has been discussed, but now they took them off the walls. No pp's at all.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by dagulla

I dont know if this has been discussed, but now they took them off the walls. No pp's at all.

Happened over three weeks ago.....racing programs for both thoroughbred & harness are available at each branch for $3.00 to replace the PP's. It was a cost cutting measure.....what's new

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Linny

Honestly, I have never quite understood the concept of free info.

Never underestimate the power of free. Some of the most powerful companies in the world are based upon the premise of free. Google and free search is one example, but a more close to home example is casinos. If you had to pay $1.00 to sit down at a slot machine, would you ever sit? Of course not.

In horse racing, the game changer is the information. The information is horded like its the Holy Grail. Equibase, who controls the information, only licenses it. Those who sell it are not allowed to give it away for free, to protect the information's value and protect their interests.

If the industry were to ever overcome this ridiculous hurdle, one can only imagine where it could take us.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Never underestimate the power of free. Some of the most powerful companies in the world are based upon the premise of free. Google and free search is one example, but a more close to home example is casinos. If you had to pay $1.00 to sit down at a slot machine, would you ever sit? Of course not.
In horse racing, the game changer is the information. The information is horded like its the Holy Grail. Equibase, who controls the information, only licenses it. Those who sell it are not allowed to give it away for free, to protect the information's value and protect their interests.

If the industry were to ever overcome this ridiculous hurdle, one can only imagine where it could take us.

but would they pay $1 to find out which machine pays off the most, or the highest? probably.

i am not surprised, considering the economy right now, to see formerly free materials suddenly have a price tag attached.

[joeydb]

I concur that it is strange for them to suddenly start charging. I prefer DRF past performance files, and when I know I'm going to the track or OTB, I buy them and download the PDFs. The price isn't bad and I like the product.

They also do two free "Races of the Week" as many of you already know, and I have gotten in the habit of checking those out too. It has definitely caused me to play more as I can casually analyze those two races without committing to spending the time of reviewing an entire card. It also gets me to check out DRF.com several times a week, and then I see what their top stories are.

So they already have me as a periodic, and somewhat frequent customer, but they also are keeping me happy by giving me something for free, and that stimulates even more interest. I think it's a great strategy, and their owner, Steve Crist, is a very bright guy.