NBC receives mail from shooter

[Antitrust32]

This whole situation just sucks so much. This guy was a complete sicko nutcase and gave out so many warning signs it seems, but there he was still going to school planning on executing this madness and nobody could do anything about it. Doesnt make sense, I dont understand how the school administrators couldnt kick him out or get him help, or the police. They say its because there was no "direct threat" to go off of, but all those horrific writings and stalking and not talking for months at a time. Crazy ****. That killer was crying out for attention to get help it seems, and nobody could give it to him. He is on another level of crazy.

[Mortimer]

Boy...talk about wasted words.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Morty, I agree...

I do think that a normal, level headed person has better luck dealing with society in a more productive manner, though. This kid seems as if he hit rock bottom and it's how you deal with life when you're at rock bottom that actually defines you as 'crazy' or 'sane.' I don't think this kid was right in the head (obviously.) Sometimes it's easier to label someone as a scumbag than to read between the lines...

OK, 35 years of working with mentally ill folks has taught me the following:
1) Society does indeed often create monsters, a study of mass murders indicates certain common threads.
2) This kid was obviously at risk for years and never received the help he needed.
3) Many folks with good intentions tried to help but there simply wasn't a system in place to help him under current laws.
4) he planned this rampage for a long time and executed innocent people in cold blood...he was sick but he was also a monster, there needs to be changes in the way society treats folks with mental illness but this individual still made choices...psychotic or not, he killed 32 innocent people!
The sad thing about this case (well, one of many obviously) is that it seems everyone followed the laws and procedures that are in place...changes need to occur or this will happen again and again!

[Mortimer]

SF;


And maybe if little darlings when pulling stunts like laughing at a kid in class had a teacher who would not put up with it and stopped everything right there and put everyone in their place by saying..."This boy is YOU."


That may have helped.

[Mortimer]

I don't mean to sound obstinate or arguemenative;just read it as my opinion.







I know leave this fine discussion.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

SF;


And maybe if little darlings when pulling stunts like laughing at a kid in class had a teacher who would not put up with it and stopped everything right there and put everyone in their place by saying..."This boy is YOU."


That may have helped.

Certainly treating each other better would make a better world, and better discipline in the classroom (and at home) would be a huge benefit. Those that are mentally ill need many more services however, society needs to take this problem seriously. Many MI folks are invisible, homeless or poor, they are 7x more likely to be the victim of a crime than the perp. Often times they are released from hospitals with an inadequate (or no) support system. The very laws that protect you and me often harm them as they make it impossible to get them treatment. It is a huge problem that could be solved if politicians actually listened to MH professionals instead of playing politics with the lives of those who can't speak up. Of course, we know the likelihood of that happening!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

I don't mean to sound obstinate or arguemenative;just read it as my opinion.







I know leave this fine discussion.

I think you ment now

[Mortimer]

Yes....now.







Thank you so much.

[Payson Dave]

Been up in Northern NY where the power was out for the past several days...just now hearing/reading about this horrific happening.....

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I think you ment now

meant! sorry

[Antitrust32]

lol lol lol

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

lol lol lol

No work scheduled today.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

SF;


And maybe if little darlings when pulling stunts like laughing at a kid in class had a teacher who would not put up with it and stopped everything right there and put everyone in their place by saying..."This boy is YOU."


That may have helped.

I'd like to think that it would have, but then you've got another problem in your hands because by the teacher bringing that up in class, the shy child is now put under the spotlight. Kids can be awfully mean...

[Danzig]

i blame his parents, who knew damn well there was a problem but chose to pretty much ignore it, not do their job, and let him stay down there.
then there's the fact that he stalked two women, who chose not to press charges-had they done so, he'd have had a felony on his record, and no gun purchase allowed--at least, then he'd have had to buy illegally, and of course he'd have found a way no doubt.
then there's the fact that a psychiatrist let him walk out of the institution...why? most likely because our society thinks theirs a pill for everything, and as long as he took his meds, he'd be just fine.

then there are the myriad others who looked the other way, the faculty members, counselors, etc....


and i do think it's a shame they are playing all his garbage he sent--he got EXACTLY what he wanted.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i blame his parents, who knew damn well there was a problem but chose to pretty much ignore it, not do their job, and let him stay down there.
then there's the fact that he stalked two women, who chose not to press charges-had they done so, he'd have had a felony on his record, and no gun purchase allowed--at least, then he'd have had to buy illegally, and of course he'd have found a way no doubt.
then there's the fact that a psychiatrist let him walk out of the institution...why? most likely because our society thinks theirs a pill for everything, and as long as he took his meds, he'd be just fine.

then there are the myriad others who looked the other way, the faculty members, counselors, etc....


and i do think it's a shame they are playing all his garbage he sent--he got EXACTLY what he wanted.

You are spreading some mis-information here! We don't know what the family knew or didn't know. The girls just wanted to be left alone, I doubt there was enough evidence to convict him based on reports. And...do you think a qualified psychiatrist simply "let him walk"? In order to keep a person in a MH facility against their will, you have to be able to prove that they are a danger to self or others...if he went to therapy and said the "right things" there was no legal way to keep him locked up...remember, he hadn't been charged with a crime and we aren't sure whether he was voluntarily or involuntarily committed (if he had been involuntarily committed then that should have shown up and negated the gun purchase). If he was admitted voluntarily then under the law he can leave at any time! I worked in a Psych Facility and I know the law...many times we were forced to discharge someone long before we were comfortable because the law demanded it! And, because of privacy laws, we were unable to pass info along...under penalty of going to jail ourselves!!! Don't blame psychiatrists and other mental health professionals, you sound like Tom Cruise! Blame society and the laws that often make it impossible to get someone needed help coupled with the lack of resources to treat folks after hospitalization! Medication is a tool but not an answer...every psychiatrist knows that! There is no substitute for comprehensive treatment and that, in a case like this, can only be obtained in a secure facility! But when society's laws say we MUST discharge...

[timmgirvan]

I believe Cho had "selective mutism"......according to Wikipedia....all the manifestations were there. I can't blame his parents....immigrants who came over 'broke' and tried to build a life....I think he was far removed from his parents' influence. Did he fall through the cracks?.....probably!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

You are spreading some mis-information here! We don't know what the family knew or didn't know. The girls just wanted to be left alone, I doubt there was enough evidence to convict him based on reports. And...do you think a qualified psychiatrist simply "let him walk"? In order to keep a person in a MH facility against their will, you have to be able to prove that they are a danger to self or others...if he went to therapy and said the "right things" there was no legal way to keep him locked up...remember, he hadn't been charged with a crime and we aren't sure whether he was voluntarily or involuntarily committed (if he had been involuntarily committed then that should have shown up and negated the gun purchase). If he was admitted voluntarily then under the law he can leave at any time! I worked in a Psych Facility and I know the law...many times we were forced to discharge someone long before we were comfortable because the law demanded it! And, because of privacy laws, we were unable to pass info along...under penalty of going to jail ourselves!!! Don't blame psychiatrists and other mental health professionals, you sound like Tom Cruise! Blame society and the laws that often make it impossible to get someone needed help coupled with the lack of resources to treat folks after hospitalization! Medication is a tool but not an answer...every psychiatrist knows that! There is no substitute for comprehensive treatment and that, in a case like this, can only be obtained in a secure facility! But when society's laws say we MUST discharge...

no, i'm not spreading disinformation. his parents sought help at some point, he was sent for counseling, was found to be a danger to society, and wasn't kept at the facility that he was sent to. these were all on the radio this morning. they were talking again this afternoon with family members who said they knew there were 'problems'.

yes, there is a lot of monday morning qb'ing going on--my question is just how much has to happen before someone does something.

[skippy3481]

Acutally somer, i was listening to someone who helped design the gun law In VA and he was pretty sure that being in a mental health institution would not disqualify him from owning the gun, even though it should. He said that 90% of the time the information is not picked up on by the computer doing the background check...... Sounds like something needs fixed.....

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Acutally somer, i was listening to someone who helped design the gun law In VA and he was pretty sure that being in a mental health institution would not disqualify him from owning the gun, even though it should. He said that 90% of the time the information is not picked up on by the computer doing the background check...... Sounds like something needs fixed.....

Yeah, there is a box that asks if you were "involuntarily" committed...that would red flag the application. Apparently he didn't check it and apparently it didn't show up on the computer check...so, the question remains regarding type of commitment. In any event, it should stop a sale imo!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no, i'm not spreading disinformation. his parents sought help at some point, he was sent for counseling, was found to be a danger to society, and wasn't kept at the facility that he was sent to. these were all on the radio this morning. they were talking again this afternoon with family members who said they knew there were 'problems'.

yes, there is a lot of monday morning qb'ing going on--my question is just how much has to happen before someone does something.

You simply don't know what you are talking about...nor do many of the TV talking heads. There is a legal process to commit someone...the paperwork which they speak of is simply part of said process. If you read (and comprehend) my earlier post, I tried to make it clear...you can't hospitalize someone against their will without certain legal criteria being met, and hospital personnel must obey the law like everyone else...if the law says they must be discharged then there is no choice! Reporters, unless they have a background in MH, don't understand this...obviously, you don't either! As a MH professional, I have done paperwork to hospitalize patients, worked with MH patients in the hospital, and worked with the legal system regarding all aspects of hospitalization. With the confidentiality laws in place today, it is quite possible that his parents had no idea concerning the extent of his psychosis, same with the school!