Most Overrated Horses

Dahoss · #1 03-16-2021, 02:31 PM

I’d say Songbird. What say you?

RolloTomasi · #2 03-16-2021, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’d say Songbird. What say you?

I wouldn't put Songbird high up on the list of overrated horses although she certainly wasn't very fast based on speed figures. There seemed to have been a lot of people on these boards that found her suspect based on those speed figures during her 3yo year as opposed to overrating her. In the end she didn't loose too many races and can't be accused of ducking a top race (until her owner pulled the plug).

I was impressed with her race in the BC Distaff against a genuinely good horse (Beholder) but it was a great disappointment that she didn't progress as a 4yo. She obviously had some physical issues to explain why. On the plus side, she made her 4yo debut in a Grade 1 across the country from where she was stabled and IIRC the race produced something like 3 or 4 subsequent Grade 1 winners.

robfla · #3 03-16-2021, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I’d say Songbird. What say you?

Dollar Bill and Bellamy Road

blackthroatedwind · #4 03-16-2021, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robfla

Dollar Bill and Bellamy Road

Bellamy Road actually might be one of the single most underrated horses of my racing lifetime.

blackthroatedwind · #5 03-16-2021, 04:13 PM

I see this differently ( for instance, Dollar Bill is actually underrated, as he was one of the best horses in his crop and people on message boards do nothing but dump on him like he was a $25K claimer ) than most. Songbird was overrated....she was also ( in the grand scheme of things ) a fantastic horse. She just wasn't an all-time great like some people want to suggest....but she was damn good. The true question is whether or not these horses are as good as their reputations....at least to me.

Tacitus is a funny one, as some of us overrated him ( myself included ) while others dramatically underrate him. He's a very polarizing horse. Zenyatta was as well ( polarizing that is ). She was tremendous, but overly deified by some, and unfortunately she passed on too many races where she very well might have proven herself worthy of many of her accolades. Rachel Alexandra was far superior to her....but only for one year, while Zenyatta did it for three. Different discussions.

RolloTomasi · #6 03-16-2021, 04:51 PM

Zenyatta
Azeri
Paseana
Maximum Security
American Pharoah
Big Brown
Arrogate
Medaglia d'Oro
Midnight Bisou
Sightseek
Havre de Grace
Close Hatches
Aptitude
Manistique

cakes44 · #7 03-16-2021, 05:39 PM

Can a horse be both overrated and underrated?

Commentator

Alabama Stakes · #8 03-16-2021, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Zenyatta
Azeri
Paseana
Maximum Security
American Pharoah
Big Brown
Arrogate
Medaglia d'Oro
Midnight Bisou
Sightseek
Havre de Grace
Close Hatches
Aptitude
Manistique

Worst list ever.

And for the delusional speed figure people, why don’t you look at how many times ZENYATTA and Songbird ran, how many times they won, how many grade One wins they had and then maybe wake up and smell the coffee. Did you see what Songbird did to those fillies at Saratoga ? She drowned them all and broke their spirit. Rachel ducked Zenyatta at Hot Springs because her connections knew better then to try the Queen on for size.

Dahoss · #9 03-16-2021, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Worst list ever.

And for the delusional speed figure people, why don’t you look at how many times ZENYATTA and Songbird ran, how many times they won, how many grade One wins they had and then maybe wake up and smell the coffee. Did you see what Songbird did to those fillies at Saratoga ? She drowned them all and broke their spirit. Rachel ducked Zenyatta at Hot Springs because her connections knew better then to try the Queen on for size.

More laziness.

Songbird broke their spirits? They were allowance runners at best. Look at the fields she beat beat. She was fortunate to be a 2 year old and 3 year old during the worst two years for that age group in recent memory. The only times she faced real horses she lost both times with cake trips.

Dahoss · #10 03-16-2021, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44

Can a horse be both overrated and underrated?

Commentator

He’s an interesting pick. What was overrated about him? Brilliant sprint speed and was able to carry it 9 furlongs in the Whitney not once but twice.

cakes44 · #11 03-16-2021, 06:35 PM

Melted at wildly short odds multiple times. Brittle as heck. Only ran once in the BC and got waxed.

At the same time, he ran HUGE races and over an extended period of time. That’s why I’m saying overrated and underrated at the same time.

blackthroatedwind · #12 03-16-2021, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44

Melted at wildly short odds multiple times. Brittle as heck. Only ran once in the BC and got waxed.

At the same time, he ran HUGE races and over an extended period of time. That’s why I’m saying overrated and underrated at the same time.

I think you are confusing unreliable with overrated.

cakes44 · #13 03-16-2021, 07:09 PM

Could be.

I’ll offer up Kitten’s Joy.

blackthroatedwind · #14 03-16-2021, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44

Could be.

I’ll offer up Kitten’s Joy.

What about him? He was a monster

Conrad · #15 03-16-2021, 07:19 PM

Ashado

She won a lot of races and a lot of money, but, as a figure maker, I found her unimpressive.

She faced decent opposition (Stellar Jayne, Storm Flag Flying, Society Selection and others) but nothing spectacular.

RolloTomasi · #16 03-16-2021, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conrad

Ashado

She won a lot of races and a lot of money, but, as a figure maker, I found her unimpressive.

She faced decent opposition (Stellar Jayne, Storm Flag Flying, Society Selection and others) but nothing spectacular.

I had her on my list originally, but ultimately thought she had been exposed enough times to not be severely overrated.

She did win the BC as a 3yo and those 2 rivals from her crop that you mentioned were in good form in the summer of the 3yo year. For a Pletcher trainee, she did more as a 4yo than I would have anticipated...