Can you really make money in this game ?

[POINTGIVEN1985]

I really dont think that you can. Its such a hard game to win money on, i go for a day at stimucast and handicap 3-4 tracks all day catch a couple big hits and at the end of the day still finish down. Its so hard to win over the long run betting horses...i feel the only way i win is if i spot play 1 maybe to races a day, bet them and thats it. I find it so hard to go to otb with my buddies and bet for a whole day and finish up.

[hockey2315]

Read "Six Secrets of Successful Bettors" from DRF Press. It totally changed my outlook on the game. . .

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Read "Six Secrets of Successful Bettors" from DRF Press. It totally changed my outlook on the game. . .

Frank? Will you autograph a copy if I send it?

[POINTGIVEN1985]

thanks i just orderd the book will be here in 3 days... i will read it as soon as it arrives

[hockey2315]

Funny, Pillow. . .

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Frank? Will you autograph a copy if I send it?

LMAO... oh lord.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Read "Six Secrets of Successful Bettors" from DRF Press. It totally changed my outlook on the game. . .

Six secrets..

1. Know the trainers
2. Know the owners
3. Know the jockeys
4. Know the grooms
5. Know the exercise riders
6. Pick your spots

That's it. I'd love to say otherwise, but unless you've got inside information at the track, you're fighting an unbelievably steep uphill battle.

I'm not saying that you still can't win by just handicapping (or playing numbers like Hooves), but it's ridiculous how many factors are unknowable by reading the race on paper.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Six secrets..

1. Know the trainers
2. Know the owners
3. Know the jockeys
4. Know the grooms
5. Know the exercise riders
6. Pick your spots

IMO, those might be the six secrets to bankruptcy....as I would love to be able to book the action of those in the first five categories.

The average trainers are about as skilled in the art of handicapping, as the average horseplayers are at training the horses.

There's always exceptions, and I'm sure there are a few trainers who have fully developed handicapping skills--- (Cannon Shell made a very good handicapping read in the Invasor thread) ---however, even of the precious few, they are too focused on their own horses, and their own work, to have the time and energy to do all the needed handicapping work it takes to have the best opinion possible on the competiton they are up against.

I worked for a vetern Kentucky trainer when I was younger....great guy, took good care of his horses, but he was completely lost with all things handicapping. When he told me that to start with, I just thought he was being modest...turns out he wasn't!

The owners, jockies, grooms, and excersize riders are all going to be uninformed about the competition as well---and these folks also, almost always, have severe handicapping deficiencies.

The only time it really helps to have access to any of these people, is when you have a horse who is an unknown quantity in some way, such as a first-time starter, or an import making his United States debut. Also, they can sometimes provide good information on a runner returning from a layoff.

There is no big secret to beating this game IMO. You just need to keep developing your handicapping skills everyday----and do all the tedious work to gain an andvantage over the other bettors. It sometimes means staying up to 3AM, watching old races, and making notes.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The only time it really helps to have access to any of these people, is when you have a horse who is an unknown quantity in some way, such as a first-time starter, or an import making his United States debut. Also, they can sometimes provide good information on a runner returning from a layoff.

It also helps a lot when there is a class rise or a cut in claiming price. My point is that what you can't definitively read on paper. Nor fitness. And in the average race at the average track, those are often the two biggest factors in determining whether your horse will run well or not.

If you're going to say that KNOWING intention and fitness isn't key, well, I'm just going to have to disagree with you there..

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Six secrets..

1. Know the trainers
2. Know the owners
3. Know the jockeys
4. Know the grooms
5. Know the exercise riders
6. Pick your spots

That's it. I'd love to say otherwise, but unless you've got inside information at the track, you're fighting an unbelievably steep uphill battle.

I'm not saying that you still can't win by just handicapping (or playing numbers like Hooves), but it's ridiculous how many factors are unknowable by reading the race on paper.

my dart board method has served me well ..lmao,,, and the 2/5 with 2/5 double..lol

[SundayStar]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Six secrets..

1. Know the trainers
2. Know the owners
3. Know the jockeys
4. Know the grooms
5. Know the exercise riders
6. Pick your spots

That's it. I'd love to say otherwise, but unless you've got inside information at the track, you're fighting an unbelievably steep uphill battle.

I'm not saying that you still can't win by just handicapping (or playing numbers like Hooves), but it's ridiculous how many factors are unknowable by reading the race on paper.

so true. which makes being a consistent winner almost impossible. mullins took a lot fo grief for his comments but for the most part he spoketh the truth......

[blackthroatedwind]

I would say the opposite.....


It's amazing how much information IS in the paper if only one is willing ( and able ) to dig deep enough and do the required work. The game is a LOT more logical than most people realize.

[2 Dollar Bill]

Just remember its entertainment and all the work you do, can be lost on a head bob! If you dont bet the farm, have a fun time & come home with a few bucks, how bad can it be ? When in doubt bet the grey horse..

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would say the opposite.....


It's amazing how much information IS in the paper if only one is willing ( and able ) to dig deep enough and do the required work. The game is a LOT more logical than most people realize.

Another dart-thrower..

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Six secrets..

1. Know the trainers

I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this, but the trainer angle, at least for me, has been my worst enemy and my best friend.

I say worst because often times I'll add an extra horse into my bet because "it's the Pletcher" even though I don't really like the horse and I'm probably killing myself in the long run on profit vs. money bet. I'm probably better off just taking a stand against that entry? At the same time, I've included horses (especially in Claimers) because of the trainer involved and it was the right thing to do. Which makes things very confusing, besides the fact that for the beginner capper I think claimers are much harder to figure out.

Frankel - I never bet his first time starters from Europe in Stakes races. It seems they either run off the board or if they do win, they were very overbet.

Class hikes or drops is something I'm really bad at recognizing a positive move...which is where I really rely on the trainer information.

My thoughts on Jazil being entered on Thursday is he is a bet against. McLaughlin can bring a horse off from the layoff better than anyone...me thinks McLaughlin thinks Jazil needs another race (hooray for me )

[Kasept]

This thread is well on its' way to making it to the 'Charlie Hatton'... Endlessly entertaining and interesting...

I'll quickly add that I believe it's very possible to make a consistant profit at the track, but it does not involve any one specific set of requirements or procedures.

Each individual player must craft his or her own nuanced approach which utilizes their specific strengths and avoids making the same mistakes too often. Understanding your strengths and weaknesses as a player; capitalizing on those strengths and learning how and where the weaknesses resulted in beats; application of bankroll; and confidence in your own opinion and approach are more important to long term success than any one set of handicapping maxims...

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Kasept

This thread is well on its' way to making it to the 'Charlie Hatton'... Endlessly entertaining and interesting...

I'll quickly add that I believe it's very possible to make a consistant profit at the track, but it does not involve any one specific set of requirements or procedures.

Each individual player must craft his or her own nuanced approach which utilizes their specific strengths and avoids making the same mistakes too often. Understanding your strengths and weaknesses as a player; capitalizing on those strengths and learning how and where the weaknesses resulted in beats; application of bankroll; and confidence in your own opinion and approach are more important to long term success than any one set of handicapping maxims...

Excellent points, Steve. I've learned that if I want to pick a winner, I must never ever play that horse. Guaranteed that if I DON'T put a dime on the horse, that horse will cross the finish line first.

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this, but the trainer angle, at least for me, has been my worst enemy and my best friend.

I say worst because often times I'll add an extra horse into my bet because "it's the Pletcher" even though I don't really like the horse and I'm probably killing myself in the long run on profit vs. money bet. I'm probably better off just taking a stand against that entry? At the same time, I've included horses (especially in Claimers) because of the trainer involved and it was the right thing to do. Which makes things very confusing, besides the fact that for the beginner capper I think claimers are much harder to figure out.

Frankel - I never bet his first time starters from Europe in Stakes races. It seems they either run off the board or if they do win, they were very overbet.

Class hikes or drops is something I'm really bad at recognizing a positive move...which is where I really rely on the trainer information.

My thoughts on Jazil being entered on Thursday is he is a bet against. McLaughlin can bring a horse off from the layoff better than anyone...me thinks McLaughlin thinks Jazil needs another race (hooray for me )

I agree with you, i sometimes dont punt on a horse because i dont like the trainer which is stupid because it's not the horses fault, also i never bet on my own horses because as a trainer i feel you need a impartial view of how your horse ran & money seems to cloud ones thinking.

[2MinsToPost]

At my home track, I would estimate that at least 50% of the people in attendance who are gambling are playing the tote board with no form. In the big picture, what % do these type bettors account for in the pools?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I think you can,but you have to ONLY bet when certain conditions exist.Many of us(including myself) rely on horses with mediocre( or bad) trainers.If I look back at who anchored my last 3 nice multi-race wins(Biancone,Canani,and Zucker,) and compare them to (the trainers of) my last 3 close calls,then I can see where some editing could have been done.It is a matter of entertainment value versus making money.I can tell you that the average trainers (even when they have the best horse)often run 2nd-4th.