Aqu 1st

Anybody see that 20 length form reversal?
I see a lotta accusations about some high profile trainers, but I don't see the guys I read about performing "miracles" like that.

Anybody wanna estimate how many Beyer points she will go up, or how many sheet points she will go down?
I'll start the sheet point bidding at a 5 point lifetime top. Do I hear 6?

I had the 9 in a $1 exacta with the 2 horse and the 1, 10 and 11.

But more importantly, do you think it is going to be a merry go round today? I am putting together a pick 6 ticket.

I loved the turn back in distance on the 9 and the horse has some speed. Once the 9 got the lead I knew it was lights out because of the turn back. But I think we are looking at a track that is going to be speed speed speed.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Anybody wanna estimate how many Beyer points she will go up, or how many sheet points she will go down?
I'll start the sheet point bidding at a 5 point lifetime top. Do I hear 6?

I didnt see the race

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Anybody see that 20 length form reversal?
I see a lotta accusations about some high profile trainers, but I don't see the guys I read about performing "miracles" like that.

Has it occured to you that it is a souped up speed track and that performance was yet another example of a track being responsible for a horse's performance?

But hey, I don't trust anybody, and will certainly pass on your concerns to Roddy Valente, who owned the first winner, next time I see him.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Has it occured to you that it is a souped up speed track and that performance was yet another example of a track being responsible for a horse's performance?

But hey, I don't trust anybody, and will certainly pass on your concerns to Roddy Valente, who owned the first winner, next time I see him.

thanks for the 'illumination. surely noone had give that any thought.

thanks also for the latest insipid name drop. it's been a couple days since your last.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

thanks for the 'illumination. surely noone had give that any thought.

thanks also for the latest insipid name drop. it's been a couple days since your last.

Well, I guess your pal Mike didn't, else he wouldn't have posted his rant. Actually, as far as Roddy is concerned, Mike is the one who has dropped his name around here, I'm just the one who is friendly with him. I was only trying to help your pal Mike in letting him know I would make sure to pass along his concerns. Certainly an owner would want to know if his trainer was cheating.

I'm glad I have increased your limited vocabulary. It warms my heart to know I have helped the needy.

[ELA]

I think to jump to conclusions based upon one aspect -- in this case "form reversal" and "miracles" -- is a bit myopic. I think Andy brings up the major contributory factor in the track condition.

Now, aside from the # itself -- was this horse not competitive? Sure, not ML favorite or anything of the like. Maybe it's because I know Bruce and Roddy, but you don't have to know them to know that they race horses where they can win -- Period! Another West Coast import, after a couple of starts, etc. I could have seen Bruce going either way after the last race. It would have been aggressive to drop after the last one, but I've seen him do it. Touger with a NY bred.

Eric

[blackthroatedwind]

To be fair, Eric, without saying it was a bias aided win, it was a pretty tough performance to defend.....especially in relation to the horse's pps.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, I guess your pal Mike didn't, else he wouldn't have posted his rant. Actually, as far as Roddy is concerned, Mike is the one who has dropped his name around here, I'm just the one who is friendly with him. I was only trying to help your pal Mike in letting him know I would make sure to pass along his concerns. Certainly an owner would want to know if his trainer was cheating.

I'm glad I have increased your limited vocabulary. It warms my heart to know I have helped the needy.

who's mike?

Anyway, thanks as always. Especially for the vocab hints. I don't think mine's bad (I have an IQ over 90; it's been tested!), but it's always a good thing to hear your insights, however indolent they may be.

You mention you're a "glutton for punishment." Hopefully you'll evolve past that 'fear of regret' factor and start passing a few races.

Can't see how you folks can play the A inner now; it's a calvary charge to the inside and every race looks like they're stacked two-deep at the half at Yonkers.

To each his own. Keep up the good work.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, I guess your pal Mike didn't, else he wouldn't have posted his rant. Actually, as far as Roddy is concerned, Mike is the one who has dropped his name around here, I'm just the one who is friendly with him. I was only trying to help your pal Mike in letting him know I would make sure to pass along his concerns. Certainly an owner would want to know if his trainer was cheating.

I'm glad I have increased your limited vocabulary. It warms my heart to know I have helped the needy.

I've never dropped his name, I've only mentioned that "a local owner" owns a horse.
I know who he is but never see him.
Now, you go back and try and find the post where " I dropped his name" ok?
You are really off your game on this thread.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I've never dropped his name, I've only mentioned that "a local owner" owns a horse.
I know who he is but never see him.
Now, you go back and try and find the post where " I dropped his name" ok?
You are really off your game on this thread.

How " off my game " am I?

Was refuting your original post, which apparently after its utter lunacy has been exposed had some double meaning, " off my game "? Let me guess....Dixie helped you with your response.

Was pointing out that Bishop Court Hill was the speed of the speed in the feature " off my game ". Let me guess further...Dixie called you after the race to tell you that as well?

Mike, constantly mentioning names unnecessarily, which is what you do constantly, is what I find preposterous. Certainly the owner being referred to has had his name thrown around more than once by you. Sorry if I'm not going to peruse your 5000 plus posts to find examples.

" Off my game "? It's always some personal wrestling match with you.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I've never dropped his name, I've only mentioned that "a local owner" owns a horse.
I know who he is but never see him.
Now, you go back and try and find the post where " I dropped his name" ok?
You are really off your game on this thread.

Here's one....post #41 in the " If you're not a horse then maybe you're a rabbit...

Originally Posted by oracle80

He was sold to Arab interests a few years back by Roddy.

[philcski]

I missed seeing the 2nd race but the 3rd was won from well off the pace. Track seems to be playing reasonable today. The 9 ran much better, but she had shown high speed in her previous 2 starts against slightly better going long then stopped, how is this a shock when she returns to her preferred distance of 6F (perhaps we should call her "One Turn" Halo?)

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by philcski

I missed seeing the 2nd race but the 3rd was won from well off the pace. Track seems to be playing reasonable today. The 9 ran much better, but she had shown high speed in her previous 2 starts against slightly better going long then stopped, how is this a shock when she returns to her preferred distance of 6F (perhaps we should call her "One Turn" Halo?)

I would be careful. In the second a hopeless sprinter stretching out just got nailed at the wire by the 6:5 stalker and nobody made up any perceptible ground. In the third it was a contentious, while not super fast, pace, and the rail horse held gamely ( at 13:1 ), though one could make a case she was an overlay, and the winner sat a perfect inside trip behind the duelers, who finished second and third. She was nowhere near " well off the pace ".

It may not be the speedway we saw a week or so ago, and first races can be aberational, but I am not inclined to say the track is anything close to even.

That being said, I like a number of horses later in the card that aren't speed types. Why? Because I'm an idiot and a glutton for punishment.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would be careful. In the second a hopeless sprinter stretching out just got nailed at the wire by the 6:5 stalker and nobody made up any perceptible ground. In the third it was a contentious, while not super fast, pace, and the rail horse held gamely ( at 13:1 ), though one could make a case she was an overlay, and the winner sat a perfect inside trip behind the duelers, who finished second and third. She was nowhere near " well off the pace ".

It may not be the speedway we saw a week or so ago, and first races can be aberational, but I am not inclined to say the track is anything close to even.

That being said, I like a number of horses later in the card that aren't speed types. Why? Because I'm an idiot and a glutton for punishment.

I guess she wasn't that far back, agreed. Thought the 2 was an overlay as well (these NYB fallowances on the inner are so often crapshoots of manytime-losers.)

If the track is playing fair, the 4, 6, and 12 have a big chance of knocking off this phony even money in the 4th. She's not much more than 1 or 2 lengths better than this group if the track doesn't carry her gate speed she showed in the last.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Has it occured to you that it is a souped up speed track and that performance was yet another example of a track being responsible for a horse's performance?

But hey, I don't trust anybody, and will certainly pass on your concerns to Roddy Valente, who owned the first winner, next time I see him.

YOu do that ok?
My point wasn't to accuse anyone of anything, rather to point out that certain KNOW IT ALLS bring up situations like these and point to certain guys and scream "CHEAT CHEAT"!!!! yet when other trainers win they point to VERY VALID and logical reasons like souped up tracks as the reason.
That was the point of my starting this thread, and the very first response I got was exactly what I was looking for, thanks!!!

[Rupert Pupkin]

That inner-dirt track at Aqueduct is hit or miss. Some horses move way up on it and some horses don't like it at all. This horse obviously moved way up on it. You never know what to expect when a horse is running on it for the first time.

[ELA]

Inner, bias, track condition, and how many more things. LOL. I remember many years ago, a horseman who I have the utmost respect for told me that "horses make liars out of men" and that has only proven itself about a billion times or so. LOL.

Like I said, I thought this horse figured. I liked the inner, I liked the speed shown, and I like the cutback. I also think that the horse had the right to improve given the circumstances.

Eric