Here's why 5Dimes is better than Pinnacle

[Dunbar]

The common wisdom here seems to be that Pinnacle is the best place to bet offshore. In actuality, 5Dimes, which pays an extra 10% on winning exotic and win bets, is substantially better in most instances. Here’s why.

Let’s assume you are good enough to break even when you bet at the track. So, when a horse goes off at 4 to 1, you have a 1/5 chance to win your bet.

After 100 races betting on 4-1 shots, you should win 100 * 1/5 = 20 of them. (And you will lose 80 of them.)

Now say you bet $50 on 100 horses that go off at 4 to 1. Where will you end up with more money, Pinnacle or 5Dimes?

At Pinnacle, you are going to break even on your bets, but you will get a 7% rebate. (let’s assume this isn’t New York where the rebate would be just 4%) That is 7% * 100 * $50 = $350. So you will end up with a $350 profit at Pinnacle, even though you are just a breakeven capper.

At 5Dimes, you get an extra 10% on your winning payoffs. A horse that is 4 to 1 will pay $250 on a $50 bet. Each time you win, 5Dimes is going to give you an extra 10% on top of that—an extra $25. As we said above, a breakeven capper will win 20 out of 100 races (at 4-1). So at 5Dimes, you would collect 20 * $25 = $500 extra.

At 5Dimes you end up $500 ahead; at Pinnacle $350 ahead. Still think Pinnacle is better?

You can choose any odds and any bet size, and the result will be the same. You will do better at 5Dimes. And the better you cap, the bigger the edge at 5Dimes. But even a losing capper is better off at 5Dimes, unless the capper is worse than a chimpanzee throwing darts.

FINE PRINT:
There are some other considerations.
Disadvantages to 5Dimes:
1. No bonus or rebate for place and show bets
2. Caps on odds:
Win bets are capped at 110-1 or 50-1, depending on the size of the track. Exactas capped at 165-1 or 150-1, depending on track size. Tris capped at 550-1 or 500-1. see http://5dimes.com/payouts.html for more detailed info.
3. Not all tracks are covered by 10% bonus. The most glaring omission is Oaklawn. (at least 20 tracks ARE covered, however: http://5dimes.com/tracks.html

Disadvantage to Pinnacle:
1. Rebate is just 4% for NY tracks.
2. Bonuses are not as good as 5Dimes' bonuses
You get 20% in free play on your initial deposit at 5Dimes. This is better than Pinnacle’s 10% cash bonus.
If you lose at 5Dimes, you will be able to get another bonus when you re-deposit.

Both books now permit betting very close to post time. Up until recently, this was a problem at 5Dimes; they used to cut off betting a couple of minutes before post.

Bottom line: For most tracks, you are better off making your win, exacta, and trifecta bets at 5Dimes. If you think there’s a chance your exactas could pay more than 150-1 or your trifectas pay more than 500-1, you should bet those at CRIS. That’s right, CRIS, not Pinnacle. But that’s another post.

If any of this isn’t clear, tell me and I’ll try to clarify. I'll also show in another post that even a dart-throwing capper is usually better off at 5Dimes.

--Dunbar

PS--both 5Dimes and CRIS are top-notch sportsbooks, each having an "A" rating from the best industry watchdog, Sportsbookreview.com.

[Scav]

If I put $1,000 on a 3/1, and it pays $8 track odds, I get $4,400 in my account?

You are right, this is a better deal for a better handicapper, that being said, it looks like there fine print, especially the odds cap is confusing and for someone like me, who sends it in, I would be cautious with it at first. I have heard 5Dimes in the same sentence with Pinnacle and Cris so I know they are legit. I was reading the payout structure and it was like "The first $100 is covered by xxxx and then after that it is only these odds?

So in summation, I usually play about $200 win wagers when playing, and I usually don't play a horse for that amount that is about 6 or 7/1, would I get affected by these payout rules?

Scav

[Scav]

Also, is it 10% bonus for TOTAL payout, or just profit on the ticket IE

$1,000 win on 3/1...Get back $4,000 + $400 bonus or $300 bonus?

[randallscott35]

Not a chance. Pinnacle is the standard and you are safe there. Not to mention the low juice they have on everything else you can bet. Nothing wrong with having multiple outs, but just for horses, Pinny is the logical one.

[Scav]

I don't know Randall, the above makes sense....I was leaving alot of money on the table putting all my action through Youbet (got a call from them a week ago asking what happened, told them 7% happened) but this 10% thing from Dimes makes financial sense, if you pick winners....

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Not a chance. Pinnacle is the standard and you are safe there. Not to mention the low juice they have on everything else you can bet. Nothing wrong with having multiple outs, but just for horses, Pinny is the logical one.

Randall, are we talking about horse bets or sports bets? If you want to bet sports, go to Pinnacle--I would agree that it is the best book for sports. But I thought I was talking about horse bets.

5Dimes has been around as long or longer than Pinnacle. 5Dimes's "A" rating at Sportsbookreview.com speaks for itself, if you are an experienced sports bettor. Instead of saying "Pinny is the logical one", how about showing why? I stated my case for 5Dimes pretty thoroughly. Do you see something wrong in my calculations?

You will end up with about 40% more money from bonuses/rebates at 5Dimes than you will at Pinnacle. I don't see how that makes Pinnacle the "logical one".

--Dunbar

[Scav]

Was I right with my calculations or not?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Scav

Also, is it 10% bonus for TOTAL payout, or just profit on the ticket IE

$1,000 win on 3/1...Get back $4,000 + $400 bonus or $300 bonus?

Scav, that's part of the beauty of it. You get paid the 10% on the total payout. If you bet $1000 on a 3/1 shot and win, the payout will be $4400 at 5Dimes. So you are getting 10% on the payout, but you are getting 13.3% extra (400/3000) on the amount you won. Another way of looking at it is that the 10% bonus has turned your 3-1 into an almost 7-2 payoff. (3.40-1)

To answer your previous question...

Originally Posted by Scav

You are right, this is a better deal for a better handicapper, that being said, it looks like there fine print, especially the odds cap is confusing and for someone like me, who sends it in, I would be cautious with it at first. I have heard 5Dimes in the same sentence with Pinnacle and Cris so I know they are legit. I was reading the payout structure and it was like "The first $100 is covered by xxxx and then after that it is only these odds?

So in summation, I usually play about $200 win wagers when playing, and I usually don't play a horse for that amount that is about 6 or 7/1, would I get affected by these payout rules?

You are not going to be affected by "caps" unless you like to bet on 110-1 shots at the "major" tracks.

The first $100 at major tracks will pay track odds on win bets. Anything over $100 is capped at odds of 110-1 at the "major" tracks.

So, unless you are betting on horses at greater than 110-1 at "major" tracks, then your $200 win bets will get the 10% extra on top of the full track payout.

Remember, though, that it only applies to the "major" tracks on 5Dimes' list.

--Dunbar

[Scav]

Thank you, if I sign up, I will hook you up with a referral..I'll PM you when I do

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Scav

Thank you, if I sign up, I will hook you up with a referral..I'll PM you when I do

Scav, I just edited the 2nd part of my last post, because I thought I'd made it more complicated than it had to be.

Thanks very much for the referral offer. I'm going to decline--maybe someone else here has an account and can take the referral?

--Dunbar

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

FINE PRINT:
There are some other considerations.
Disadvantages to 5Dimes:
1. No bonus or rebate for place and show bets
2. Caps on odds:
Win bets are capped at 110-1 or 50-1, depending on the size of the track. Exactas capped at 165-1 or 150-1, depending on track size. Tris capped at 550-1 or 500-1. see http://5dimes.com/payouts.html for more detailed info.
3. Not all tracks are covered by 10% bonus. The most glaring omission is Oaklawn. (at least 20 tracks ARE covered, however: http://5dimes.com/tracks.html

Disadvantage to Pinnacle:
1. Rebate is just 4% for NY tracks.
2. Bonuses are not as good as 5Dimes' bonuses
You get 20% in free play on your initial deposit at 5Dimes. This is better than Pinnacle’s 10% cash bonus.
If you lose at 5Dimes, you will be able to get another bonus when you re-deposit.

CLARIFICATION/CORRECTION! The DEPOSIT bonus situation at 5Dimes is not as good as I implied. You do get the deposit bonuses I indicated, BUT you cannot activate the bonuses by betting in the racebook. You can only satisfy the "rollover" requirement by betting in the sportsbook (or, heaven forbid, in the casino.) Therefore, unless you bet other sports or are experienced in looking for arbs, you can forget about bonuses at 5Dimes.

I started out at 5Dimes five years ago as a sportsbettor, so the issue never came up for me. Once your withdrawals exceed your deposits, you can no longer get reload bonuses. So I haven't been able to get a bonus for years and I never noticed the racebook exclusion before today.

--Dunbar

[Dunbar]

Just to be clear, the "Clarification/Correction" only related to DEPOSIT bonuses. Everything I wrote about the 10% payoff bonus at 5Dimes is correct, to the best of my knowledge.

--Dunbar