kickbacks alleged in suit

[sumitas]

here we go again and it looks like it's in writing
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=35240

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

I bet that this stuff goes on all the time, people that have alot of money that get around people that seem to be in the limelight tend not to ask alot of questions and be too trusting of these people. That is usally the total opposite of the way bussiness is usally done with people that have already amassed alot of money.

[randallscott35]

I'm sure Mike will have some good comments for this thread.

The story doesn't make the allegations completely clear.

Were the McKathans supposed to be working for McIngvale ... but taking kickbacks from the consignors of the horses they recommended?

Took many "Mc" names in this McSuit.

parasites

liquidate.

[sumitas]

Some of these white collar folks need hard time plus restitution. If proven guilty.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

The story doesn't make the allegations completely clear.

Were the McKathans supposed to be working for McIngvale ... but taking kickbacks from the consignors of the horses they recommended?

Took many "Mc" names in this McSuit.

Yes, that is correct. The McKathans were working for McIngvale and they were getting kickbacks from consignors.

[Rupert Pupkin]

There are some trainers who are known for totally ripping off their owners when they buy horses for them. It's amazing that everyine knows about it except for the owner. There is one trainer in particular who is pretty brazen about it. Any time you see that he bought a horse for $1 million at auction, everyone knows that he pocketed at least $100k on the deal.

This trainer usually picks out nice horses but the prices he pays are way out of whack. For example, you will see a horse with dead-average breeding that has a good workout at a 2 year old sale. It will be the type of horse that you would expect to go for somewhere around $300,000-$400,000, but it is always possible that the horse could go for a little higher. The horse will end up being bought by the trainer I was referring to for over $1 million. It is often times from the same consignor. All the insiders just shake their heads and say, "We all know that "Mr X" pocketed $100,000-$200,00 on that deal."

The thing that is surprising about it is that often times there is a paper trail, so if an owner does decide to sue, his case will be easy to prove.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, that is correct. The McKathans were working for McIngvale and they were getting kickbacks from consignors.

Thanks, Rupe.

Does not surprise me at all...happens every day in this industry and twice on Sundays....it is a damn shame and a cancer to our game

...dispicable

Guys a kickback is defined if you take comissions on both sides without disclosing such things to the parties involved. Its not real bright.
Randall I have never purchased a horse at a sale. Its not my game and sadly I don't think it ever will be. Its a seperate talent from finding one who is already running. Just like Rup's talent of watching two year olds breeze at training sales is another seperate one.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Guys a kickback is defined if you take comissions on both sides without disclosing such things to the parties involved. Its not real bright.
Randall I have never purchased a horse at a sale. Its not my game and sadly I don't think it ever will be. Its a seperate talent from finding one who is already running. Just like Rup's talent of watching two year olds breeze at training sales is another seperate one.

What happens in many of these cases is actually way worse than a kickback. They will call it a kickback, but it's actually stealing. Some trainers will see a horse that they like at a sale. They will go to the consignor and ask the consignor how much they are hoping to get for the horse. Let's say the consignor says that he is hoping to get $600,00 for the horse. The trainer will tell the consignor to bid against him and run the price up to $1 million. Then the trainer and consignor will split that extra $400,000. This is outright thievery. The owner gets cheated out of $400,000. He pays $1 million for a horse that he could have gotten for $600,000.

[Cannon Shell]

It was only a matter of time until these kind of things came to light. I love the part where Baffert claims he knows nothing. Kinda like Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heros.
The real good one is where the trainer/agent actually takes part of the horse to "assure" the owner he is getting a good deal.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

What happens in many of these cases is actually way worse than a kickback. They will call it a kickback, but it's actually stealing. Some trainers will see a horse that they like at a sale. They will go to the consignor and ask the consignor how much they are hoping to get for the horse. Let's say the consignor says that he is hoping to get $600,00 for the horse. The trainer will tell the consignor to bid against him and run the price up to $1 million. Then the trainer and consignor will split that extra $400,000. This is outright thievery. The owner gets cheated out of $400,000. He pays $1 million for a horse that he could have gotten for $600,000.

The above is an example of how it works most of the time.....people would be shocked if I mentioned names of trainers and bloodstock agents that I have a VERY knowledgable account of them pulling these kinds of shady deals.....shocked I tell you...I could even nae the sales, the horses and the way it was done - but I obviously would never do that here....I acknowledge these accounts on this forum just to let you understand how FURIOUS I get when I hear or see it happen....

It is the single biggest thing wrong with our industry today IMO...OWNERS PROTECTION (we don't do enough of it) these guys screw (gentle term) the very people that fnd the game and personally patron them as trainers and keep them in business...How cold is that?

An absolute cancer to our game and it WILL eventually kill our game...mark it down, unless something changes....Think about it for a minute...There are too few wealthy persons that are eligible to own horses anyway - say maybe the top 3-to-5 % people in the country and less in the world (percentage wise)....Now, tell these owners - many of whom made their fortunes through SOUND business practice - that they will now be investing in a game that is a 95% chance that they will lose money every year involved based on racing costs and revenues, and is also a high-risk proposition in terms of the actual principle investments itself (the horse(s) ) as far as paying $5,000 - $5 ,illion on an animal that can break down or colis and die at any minute....Adding to the intrigue now, you have these *******s - these opportunist leaches and scumbags of the earth - who are supposed to be your advisors to help you succeed in the game when they are really looking to drain you for every dime you can before you have bad luck and leave them (which is inevitable)....(BTW, I've even heard a VERY famous trainer say that he drains them aggressively early on because you never know how long they'll be with you - referring to rich clients)...Once horse racing is exposed for this type of wide spread scandal beyond the other scandals that already exist in our game, DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A GAME YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN INVESTING YOUR TIME, MONEY, AND ENERGY IN?

These *******s are getting rich on ZERO credentials and ruining our great game at the same time...I hope everyone of them gets caught and prosecuted..I really do....we have to come up with a better way to protect our owners before it is too late to where our reputation is such that horse racing will be known as a game of frauds and cheats and one that nobody will touch with a ten-foot pole when it comes to investing in it....scary thought, but think about it..

I don't care how dumb some people are, NOBODY will just sit there and lose their ass in an industry and take it with a smile - I guarantee you that...not even most of the wealthiest people in the world.....and now with all of this stealing and dirty business with trainers and agents with buying horses - I REALLY guarantee that people won't sit back and get humiliated and allow people to cheat them, even if its more principle that money driven...

Let me also say this.....trainers need to accept more responsibilty when it comes to buying horses legitimately too IMO......If you are a trainer and you think a horse is worth $100,000 and want to buy him at a sale and you go to $150,000 to buy the horse because you think you can because it is the owner's cash and not yours - that is wrong and unethicle IMO....Trainers should spend the money as if it was their own, but they don't becasue they are usually lazy and ultimately do not care about what the owner spends for a horse as long as they get to train it....(not all trainers are like this obviously..I'm singling out a popular group that I see this sort of behavior from all the time). I laugh because they raise their hands like its no big deal at all....I watch some of these guys at the auction..a horse will be going $400,000....$450,000....$500,000 and the hands effortlessly go up in the air and I can't hal;p but think to myself with soem of these guys that "Damn, he has never probably even seen $500,000 in his total life - yet he is effortlessy bidding it as if it were like chump change" - how ironic I find that....

This game has ALOT of horrible habits ad traditions that simnply need to be run out...they are cancerous and sometimes as an owner you almost get the fealing as if your are supposed to be f *cked over in this game when this sh it happens....its almost like they expect you to accept it....

The overall fact that the owner economics in this game are WAAAY upside-down suggests that we really need to address this issue fast and make it right...

Think about it...if you were a stockholder in a company that always lost money, wouldn't you sell and find a better investment?..Of course you would....Owners are the lifeblood of the industries...without them there is no product...no horses....no trainers get paid, no jockeys get paid - see where I'm going?

Yet despite that fact, 95% of the owners in our game lose their asses every year while some of the trainers and jockeys get rich....upside-down economics....

Owners pay for everything...the last thing they need now is getting a ram-job from these *******s who claim to be professionals - but are really just fraudulent crook hillbillies that call themselves trainers and bloodstock agents (again, most trainers are probably okay people...as for agents - no comment...I'd never use one...)

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The above is an example of how it works most of the time.....people would be shocked if I mentioned names of trainers and bloodstock agents that I have a VERY knowledgable account of them pulling these kinds of shady deals.....shocked I tell you...I could even nae the sales, the horses and the way it was done - but I obviously would never do that here....I acknowledge these accounts on this forum just to let you understand how FURIOUS I get when I hear or see it happen....

It is the single biggest thing wrong with our industry today IMO...OWNERS PROTECTION (we don't do enough of it) these guys screw (gentle term) the very people that fnd the game and personally patron them as trainers and keep them in business...How cold is that?

An absolute cancer to our game and it WILL eventually kill our game...mark it down, unless something changes....Think about it for a minute...There are too few wealthy persons that are eligible to own horses anyway - say maybe the top 3-to-5 % people in the country and less in the world (percentage wise)....Now, tell these owners - many of whom made their fortunes through SOUND business practice - that they will now be investing in a game that is a 95% chance that they will lose money every year involved based on racing costs and revenues, and is also a high-risk proposition in terms of the actual principle investments itself (the horse(s) ) as far as paying $5,000 - $5 ,illion on an animal that can break down or colis and die at any minute....Adding to the intrigue now, you have these *******s - these opportunist leaches and scumbags of the earth - who are supposed to be your advisors to help you succeed in the game when they are really looking to drain you for every dime you can before you have bad luck and leave them (which is inevitable)....(BTW, I've even heard a VERY famous trainer say that he drains them aggressively early on because you never know how long they'll be with you - referring to rich clients)...Once horse racing is exposed for this type of wide spread scandal beyond the other scandals that already exist in our game, DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A GAME YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN INVESTING YOUR TIME, MONEY, AND ENERGY IN?

These *******s are getting rich on ZERO credentials and ruining our great game at the same time...I hope everyone of them gets caught and prosecuted..I really do....we have to come up with a better way to protect our owners before it is too late to where our reputation is such that horse racing will be known as a game of frauds and cheats and one that nobody will touch with a ten-foot pole when it comes to investing in it....scary thought, but think about it..

I don't care how dumb some people are, NOBODY will just sit there and lose their ass in an industry and take it with a smile - I guarantee you that...not even most of the wealthiest people in the world.....and now with all of this stealing and dirty business with trainers and agents with buying horses - I REALLY guarantee that people won't sit back and get humiliated and allow people to cheat them, even if its more principle that money driven...

Let me also say this.....trainers need to accept more responsibilty when it comes to buying horses legitimately too IMO......If you are a trainer and you think a horse is worth $100,000 and want to buy him at a sale and you go to $150,000 to buy the horse because you think you can because it is the owner's cash and not yours - that is wrong and unethicle IMO....Trainers should spend the money as if it was their own, but they don't becasue they are usually lazy and ultimately do not care about what the owner spends for a horse as long as they get to train it....(not all trainers are like this obviously..I'm singling out a popular group that I see this sort of behavior from all the time). I laugh because they raise their hands like its no big deal at all....I watch some of these guys at the auction..a horse will be going $400,000....$450,000....$500,000 and the hands effortlessly go up in the air and I can't hal;p but think to myself with soem of these guys that "Damn, he has never probably even seen $500,000 in his total life - yet he is effortlessy bidding it as if it were like chump change" - how ironic I find that....

This game has ALOT of horrible habits ad traditions that simnply need to be run out...they are cancerous and sometimes as an owner you almost get the fealing as if your are supposed to be f *cked over in this game when this sh it happens....its almost like they expect you to accept it....

The overall fact that the owner economics in this game are WAAAY upside-down suggests that we really need to address this issue fast and make it right...

Think about it...if you were a stockholder in a company that always lost money, wouldn't you sell and find a better investment?..Of course you would....Owners are the lifeblood of the industries...without them there is no product...no horses....no trainers get paid, no jockeys get paid - see where I'm going?

Yet despite that fact, 95% of the owners in our game lose their asses every year while some of the trainers and jockeys get rich....upside-down economics....

Owners pay for everything...the last thing they need now is getting a ram-job from these *******s who claim to be professionals - but are really just fraudulent crook hillbillies that call themselves trainers and bloodstock agents (again, most trainers are probably okay people...as for agents - no comment...I'd never use one...)

Joel I agree with just about everything you say. Its extremely frustrating to be an agent in private sales, attempting to purchase one who has already shown ability on the racetrack, and not be able to get someone to pay 300 grand for a horse who has already shown proven ability, yet see people paying high 6 figures at sales for horses that have almost zero chance of ever earning that much.
I've just never understood that, as hard as I try. I realize that people at yearling sales are buying " dreams" and can fantasize that they just bought the next Smarty Jones(until it debuts of course) but it makes no sense to me and never has.
I wouldn't paint all agents with the same brush. The day that Edmund Gann met Mark Reid was indeed a lucky day for him. Mark buys off the track and purchased medgalia for the neighborhood of 350, and the grade one winning mare You for a pittance, Peace Rules, etc.
Frustration is asking someone if they are interested in a filly who debuts with a solid number and decent pedigree and hearing no, and then seeing them buy a yearling for 800 grand the next week.
I think that painting all agents with the same stroke is unfair. Agents have become specialized in different areas and not all buy at auctions.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Joel I agree with just about everything you say. Its extremely frustrating to be an agent in private sales, attempting to purchase one who has already shown ability on the racetrack, and not be able to get someone to pay 300 grand for a horse who has already shown proven ability, yet see people paying high 6 figures at sales for horses that have almost zero chance of ever earning that much.
I've just never understood that, as hard as I try. I realize that people at yearling sales are buying " dreams" and can fantasize that they just bought the next Smarty Jones(until it debuts of course) but it makes no sense to me and never has.
I wouldn't paint all agents with the same brush. The day that Edmund Gann met Mark Reid was indeed a lucky day for him. Mark buys off the track and purchased medgalia for the neighborhood of 350, and the grade one winning mare You for a pittance, Peace Rules, etc.
Frustration is asking someone if they are interested in a filly who debuts with a solid number and decent pedigree and hearing no, and then seeing them buy a yearling for 800 grand the next week.
I think that painting all agents with the same stroke is unfair. Agents have become specialized in different areas and not all buy at auctions.

Let me rephrase that - agents AT AUCTION...too many of them are in cahoots with consignors and it is simply a matter of running up as much money as possible between the consignors and agents and then chopping it all up at the end of the day - end result: Consignors and Agnets are overpaid for their product and the owner gets his horse paying way more than it was worth......If I would have journaled everytime I have seen this behavior at sales or heard of it first hand, I would probably have a pretty significant binder....damn shame...

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The above is an example of how it works most of the time.....people would be shocked if I mentioned names of trainers and bloodstock agents that I have a VERY knowledgable account of them pulling these kinds of shady deals.....shocked I tell you...I could even nae the sales, the horses and the way it was done - but I obviously would never do that here....I acknowledge these accounts on this forum just to let you understand how FURIOUS I get when I hear or see it happen....

It is the single biggest thing wrong with our industry today IMO...OWNERS PROTECTION (we don't do enough of it) these guys screw (gentle term) the very people that fnd the game and personally patron them as trainers and keep them in business...How cold is that?

An absolute cancer to our game and it WILL eventually kill our game...mark it down, unless something changes....Think about it for a minute...There are too few wealthy persons that are eligible to own horses anyway - say maybe the top 3-to-5 % people in the country and less in the world (percentage wise)....Now, tell these owners - many of whom made their fortunes through SOUND business practice - that they will now be investing in a game that is a 95% chance that they will lose money every year involved based on racing costs and revenues, and is also a high-risk proposition in terms of the actual principle investments itself (the horse(s) ) as far as paying $5,000 - $5 ,illion on an animal that can break down or colis and die at any minute....Adding to the intrigue now, you have these *******s - these opportunist leaches and scumbags of the earth - who are supposed to be your advisors to help you succeed in the game when they are really looking to drain you for every dime you can before you have bad luck and leave them (which is inevitable)....(BTW, I've even heard a VERY famous trainer say that he drains them aggressively early on because you never know how long they'll be with you - referring to rich clients)...Once horse racing is exposed for this type of wide spread scandal beyond the other scandals that already exist in our game, DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A GAME YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN INVESTING YOUR TIME, MONEY, AND ENERGY IN?

These *******s are getting rich on ZERO credentials and ruining our great game at the same time...I hope everyone of them gets caught and prosecuted..I really do....we have to come up with a better way to protect our owners before it is too late to where our reputation is such that horse racing will be known as a game of frauds and cheats and one that nobody will touch with a ten-foot pole when it comes to investing in it....scary thought, but think about it..

I don't care how dumb some people are, NOBODY will just sit there and lose their ass in an industry and take it with a smile - I guarantee you that...not even most of the wealthiest people in the world.....and now with all of this stealing and dirty business with trainers and agents with buying horses - I REALLY guarantee that people won't sit back and get humiliated and allow people to cheat them, even if its more principle that money driven...

Let me also say this.....trainers need to accept more responsibilty when it comes to buying horses legitimately too IMO......If you are a trainer and you think a horse is worth $100,000 and want to buy him at a sale and you go to $150,000 to buy the horse because you think you can because it is the owner's cash and not yours - that is wrong and unethicle IMO....Trainers should spend the money as if it was their own, but they don't becasue they are usually lazy and ultimately do not care about what the owner spends for a horse as long as they get to train it....(not all trainers are like this obviously..I'm singling out a popular group that I see this sort of behavior from all the time). I laugh because they raise their hands like its no big deal at all....I watch some of these guys at the auction..a horse will be going $400,000....$450,000....$500,000 and the hands effortlessly go up in the air and I can't hal;p but think to myself with soem of these guys that "Damn, he has never probably even seen $500,000 in his total life - yet he is effortlessy bidding it as if it were like chump change" - how ironic I find that....

This game has ALOT of horrible habits ad traditions that simnply need to be run out...they are cancerous and sometimes as an owner you almost get the fealing as if your are supposed to be f *cked over in this game when this sh it happens....its almost like they expect you to accept it....

The overall fact that the owner economics in this game are WAAAY upside-down suggests that we really need to address this issue fast and make it right...

Think about it...if you were a stockholder in a company that always lost money, wouldn't you sell and find a better investment?..Of course you would....Owners are the lifeblood of the industries...without them there is no product...no horses....no trainers get paid, no jockeys get paid - see where I'm going?

Yet despite that fact, 95% of the owners in our game lose their asses every year while some of the trainers and jockeys get rich....upside-down economics....

Owners pay for everything...the last thing they need now is getting a ram-job from these *******s who claim to be professionals - but are really just fraudulent crook hillbillies that call themselves trainers and bloodstock agents (again, most trainers are probably okay people...as for agents - no comment...I'd never use one...)

THIS is what people in positions of influence in the industry should be writing about. How come this story is never found in the racing press until it's too late, then it just gets swept under the rug?

I'd guess things are different state by state... true? Even if that's true, why aren't there "model" regs from an national organization (NTRA?) in place?

Disclosure, audiitng, etc... And if it's as bad as this, I gotta assume a lot of the dirty money is cash.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

THIS is what people in positions of influence in the industry should be writing about. How come this story is never found in the racing press until it's too late, then it just gets swept under the rug?

I'd guess things are different state by state... true? Even if that's true, why aren't there "model" regs from an national organization (NTRA?) in place?

Disclosure, audiitng, etc... And if it's as bad as this, I gotta assume a lot of the dirty money is cash.

The problem that lies here is that some of the people that advertise and patron many of these publications are the same people who participate in this type of stuff - and you obviously don't want to lose thier business...

I agree that its not right at all and i've been waiting on that brave soul who knows its going on and has the balls to do a write-up with documented incidents and exploits the cheats for who they are.....I wait for it everyday but knowone willl ever do it for the same reason I won't do it - I want to keep my job

Sucks....but its taboo....

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The above is an example of how it works most of the time.....people would be shocked if I mentioned names of trainers and bloodstock agents that I have a VERY knowledgable account of them pulling these kinds of shady deals.....shocked I tell you...I could even nae the sales, the horses and the way it was done - but I obviously would never do that here....I acknowledge these accounts on this forum just to let you understand how FURIOUS I get when I hear or see it happen....

It is the single biggest thing wrong with our industry today IMO...OWNERS PROTECTION (we don't do enough of it) these guys screw (gentle term) the very people that fnd the game and personally patron them as trainers and keep them in business...How cold is that?

An absolute cancer to our game and it WILL eventually kill our game...mark it down, unless something changes....Think about it for a minute...There are too few wealthy persons that are eligible to own horses anyway - say maybe the top 3-to-5 % people in the country and less in the world (percentage wise)....Now, tell these owners - many of whom made their fortunes through SOUND business practice - that they will now be investing in a game that is a 95% chance that they will lose money every year involved based on racing costs and revenues, and is also a high-risk proposition in terms of the actual principle investments itself (the horse(s) ) as far as paying $5,000 - $5 ,illion on an animal that can break down or colis and die at any minute....Adding to the intrigue now, you have these *******s - these opportunist leaches and scumbags of the earth - who are supposed to be your advisors to help you succeed in the game when they are really looking to drain you for every dime you can before you have bad luck and leave them (which is inevitable)....(BTW, I've even heard a VERY famous trainer say that he drains them aggressively early on because you never know how long they'll be with you - referring to rich clients)...Once horse racing is exposed for this type of wide spread scandal beyond the other scandals that already exist in our game, DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A GAME YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN INVESTING YOUR TIME, MONEY, AND ENERGY IN?

These *******s are getting rich on ZERO credentials and ruining our great game at the same time...I hope everyone of them gets caught and prosecuted..I really do....we have to come up with a better way to protect our owners before it is too late to where our reputation is such that horse racing will be known as a game of frauds and cheats and one that nobody will touch with a ten-foot pole when it comes to investing in it....scary thought, but think about it..

I don't care how dumb some people are, NOBODY will just sit there and lose their ass in an industry and take it with a smile - I guarantee you that...not even most of the wealthiest people in the world.....and now with all of this stealing and dirty business with trainers and agents with buying horses - I REALLY guarantee that people won't sit back and get humiliated and allow people to cheat them, even if its more principle that money driven...

Let me also say this.....trainers need to accept more responsibilty when it comes to buying horses legitimately too IMO......If you are a trainer and you think a horse is worth $100,000 and want to buy him at a sale and you go to $150,000 to buy the horse because you think you can because it is the owner's cash and not yours - that is wrong and unethicle IMO....Trainers should spend the money as if it was their own, but they don't becasue they are usually lazy and ultimately do not care about what the owner spends for a horse as long as they get to train it....(not all trainers are like this obviously..I'm singling out a popular group that I see this sort of behavior from all the time). I laugh because they raise their hands like its no big deal at all....I watch some of these guys at the auction..a horse will be going $400,000....$450,000....$500,000 and the hands effortlessly go up in the air and I can't hal;p but think to myself with soem of these guys that "Damn, he has never probably even seen $500,000 in his total life - yet he is effortlessy bidding it as if it were like chump change" - how ironic I find that....

This game has ALOT of horrible habits ad traditions that simnply need to be run out...they are cancerous and sometimes as an owner you almost get the fealing as if your are supposed to be f *cked over in this game when this sh it happens....its almost like they expect you to accept it....

The overall fact that the owner economics in this game are WAAAY upside-down suggests that we really need to address this issue fast and make it right...

Think about it...if you were a stockholder in a company that always lost money, wouldn't you sell and find a better investment?..Of course you would....Owners are the lifeblood of the industries...without them there is no product...no horses....no trainers get paid, no jockeys get paid - see where I'm going?

Yet despite that fact, 95% of the owners in our game lose their asses every year while some of the trainers and jockeys get rich....upside-down economics....

Owners pay for everything...the last thing they need now is getting a ram-job from these *******s who claim to be professionals - but are really just fraudulent crook hillbillies that call themselves trainers and bloodstock agents (again, most trainers are probably okay people...as for agents - no comment...I'd never use one...)

Nice post, Joel.

I feel the exact same way.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

What happens in many of these cases is actually way worse than a kickback. They will call it a kickback, but it's actually stealing. Some trainers will see a horse that they like at a sale. They will go to the consignor and ask the consignor how much they are hoping to get for the horse. Let's say the consignor says that he is hoping to get $600,00 for the horse. The trainer will tell the consignor to bid against him and run the price up to $1 million. Then the trainer and consignor will split that extra $400,000. This is outright thievery. The owner gets cheated out of $400,000. He pays $1 million for a horse that he could have gotten for $600,000.

It's more like chicanery than outright theft.

Anyone who spends $1 million on something that he knows nothing about ...

... either has lots of millions ... or is a complete chump.

The scheming trainers and consignors don't put a gun to anyone's head ... the chumps do these things voluntarily.

If you pay $100 for something ... then see it selling for $60 everywhere else ... is the person who sold it to you a thief ... or is it your fault for not being diligent?