Baffert, Point Given among Hall of Fame finalists

[Kasept]

Baffert among Hall of Fame finalists
By Jay Privman

http://www.drf.com/news/article/101886.html

Trainer Bob Baffert, a three-time winner of the Kentucky Derby, is on the ballot for the first time as a finalist for the Hall of Fame, it was announced Tuesday by the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame. Baffert is one of just two finalists for trainer along with the late Bob Wheeler, mirroring last year's ballot, when Wheeler was a finalist with Carl Nafzger, who was elected.

A minimum of two and maximum of four finalists can be named in four categories, according to rules currently in place by the Hall of Fame. In the other three categories, there were three finalists each. According to the Hall's current rules, only one can get in from each category, unless there is a tie for first.

Eddie Maple, Randy Romero, and Alex Solis - all of whom have been finalists before - are the jockeys up for election.

Best Pal, Point Given, and Tiznow are the finalists in the contemporary male category.

The contemporary female category numbers Open Mind, Silverbulletday, and Sky Beauty.

Baffert trained Point Given and Silverbulletday.

The 11 finalists were chosen from a pool of 91 nominees by the Hall's 16-member nominating committee. A total of 180 people will receive ballots. The winners will be inducted in Saratoga Springs on Aug. 14.

[slotdirt]

I think Baffert is deserving at this point, and if forced to choose between Best Pal, Point Given, and Tiznow, I'd go with Tiznow without hesitation.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

if forced to choose between Best Pal, Point Given, and Tiznow, I'd go with Tiznow without hesitation.

I'd give a razor thin edge to Best Pal - but he doesn't have a shot because he's paired with two other West Coast horses.

In BP's career - he was just 1-for-9 when he ran at a track outside of the Southern Cal circuit. He might edge out Tiznow and Point Given slightly as far as West Coast voters go ... but I doubt he gets a single vote outside of the West.

Tiznow was 3-for-4 and Point Given 5-for-8 outside of So Cal.

All of these three horses each had a run where they strung together four outstanding race.

For Best Pal it was '91:

* Won the Gr 2 San Fernando by 3.5 lengths over Olympio with a 121 Beyer

* Won the Grade 1 Strub by 1.25 lengths over Dinard with a 119.

* Won the Grade 1 Big Cap by 5.50 lengths over Twighlight Agenda with a 123

* Won the Grade 1 Oaklawn Park Cap by 1.25 lengths over Sea Cadet with a 121

For Tiznow it was '00:

* 2nd in Pacific Classic to Skimming with 115 Beyer

* Won the Super Derby by 6 with a 114 Beyer

* Won the Goodwood by a half length with a 119

* Won the Breeders Cup Classic over Giant's Causeway with a 117


For Point Given it was '01:

Winning the Preakness, Belmont (by 12+), Haskell, and Travers with 111, 114, 106, 117.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I'd give a razor thin edge to Best Pal - but he doesn't have a shot because he's paired with two other West Coast horses.

In BP's career - he was just 1-for-9 when he ran at a track outside of the Southern Cal circuit. He might edge out Tiznow and Point Given slightly as far as West Coast voters go ... but I doubt he gets a single vote outside of the West.

Tiznow was 3-for-4 and Point Given 5-for-8 outside of So Cal.

All of these three horses each had a run where they strung together four outstanding race.

For Best Pal it was '91:

* Won the Gr 2 San Fernando by 3.5 lengths over Olympio with a 121 Beyer

* Won the Grade 1 Strub by 1.25 lengths over Dinard with a 119.

* Won the Grade 1 Big Cap by 5.50 lengths over Twighlight Agenda with a 123

* Won the Grade 1 Oaklawn Park Cap by 1.25 lengths over Sea Cadet with a 121

For Tiznow it was '00:

* 2nd in Pacific Classic to Skimming with 115 Beyer

* Won the Super Derby by 6 with a 114 Beyer

* Won the Goodwood by a half length with a 119

* Won the Breeders Cup Classic over Giant's Causeway with a 117


For Point Given it was '01:

Winning the Preakness, Belmont (by 12+), Haskell, and Travers with 111, 114, 106, 117.

I think Best Pal was a better race horse then Tiznow, but only before his injury right before the 92' hollywood gold cup, after that he was a shawdow of himself though he was still able to win grade 1 races. I also think Best Pal was running with better horses.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I think Baffert is deserving at this point, and if forced to choose between Best Pal, Point Given, and Tiznow, I'd go with Tiznow without hesitation.

At first instinct that's what I thought too, but after thinking about it more I'm not so sure. I still think so but it's closer than I originally thought. Best Pal was pretty awesome for a long time, and thoroughly dominated the Cal racing scene for 5 years. I always think of him as a great older horse but he swept the important Cal 2yo races, and ran 2nd in the Derby. Point Given, I was never a huge fan but it's hard to argue against his massive ability- his Belmont was one of the best performances I've ever seen live.

Gun to my head I still say Tiznow.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Tiznow is 1/5 to take it in my opinion.

The filly and mare three are actually much harder to split. Sky Beauty has the same problem Best Pal has ... all of her success came on one circuit and her record was not impressive at all away from it.

I think Silverbulletday should win it ... but I'd make her just 13/10 to get it.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Tiznow is 1/5 to take it in my opinion.

The filly and mare three are actually much harder to split. Sky Beauty has the same problem Best Pal has ... all of her success came on one circuit and her record was not impressive at all away from it.

I think Silverbulletday should win it ... but I'd make her just 13/10 to get it.

Out of curiosity.. how did Silverbulletday do outside of age restricted races?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

She won the Doubledogdare!

[letswastemoney]

Didn't Best Pal take the 93 Hollywood Gold Cup as well? And the 95 San Antonio? I'd give it to Best Pal...Point Given didn't race long enough....Tiznow might deserve it as well....But I want to see Best Pal get this

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

Out of curiosity.. how did Silverbulletday do outside of age restricted races?

Terribly. She made seven starts against older horses and won only once, the aforementioned Doubledogdare. She was beaten in six of her last seven starts, including twice by Beautiful Pleasure, twice by Heritage of Gold and twice to end her career by Lu Ravi.

All in all, Silverbulletday's final seven losses came either to males or older females in graded stakes races.

I've personally believed she was overrated for quite some time, but the two she's up against might not be enough to keep her from getting into the Hall.

NT

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Baffert among Hall of Fame finalists
By Jay Privman

Trainer Bob Baffert, a three-time winner of the Kentucky Derby, is on the ballot for the first time as a finalist for the Hall of Fame, it was announced Tuesday by the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame.

Baffert is one of just two finalists for trainer along with the late Bob Wheeler, mirroring last year's ballot, when Wheeler was a finalist with Carl Nafzger, who was elected.

A minimum of two and maximum of four finalists can be named in four categories, according to rules currently in place by the Hall of Fame. In the other three categories, there were three finalists each. According to the Hall's current rules, only one can get in from each category, unless there is a tie for first.

Eddie Maple, Randy Romero, and Alex Solis - all of whom have been finalists before - are the jockeys up for election.

Best Pal, Point Given, and Tiznow are the finalists in the contemporary male category.

The contemporary female category numbers Open Mind, Silverbulletday, and Sky Beauty.

Baffert trained Point Given and Silverbulletday.

The 11 finalists were chosen from a pool of 91 nominees by the Hall's 16-member nominating committee. A total of 180 people will receive ballots. The winners will be inducted in Saratoga Springs on Aug. 14.

steve - i was a fan of steady edidie but are any of these 3 really hall of famer?

i think of cordero , vasquez, day , mccaron , bailey to name a few but i don't know about these 3 - any thoughts if any of the 3 will make it?

[Kasept]

Compared to some in there, like Smith and Kent D., Romero and Maple were certainly HOF worthy..

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Compared to some in there, like Smith and Kent D., Romero and Maple were certainly HOF worthy..

agreed -

[sumitas]

What is Baffert's record insofar as suspensions for drug abuse of his horses ?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by sumitas

What is Baffert's record insofar as suspensions for drug abuse of his horses ?

There was the morphine suspension in 2001 that eventually got thrown out in court. Don't know if there were any others.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Compared to some in there, like Smith and Kent D., Romero and Maple were certainly HOF worthy..

How about Earlie Fires? Isn't he in there?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Compared to some in there, like Smith and Kent D., Romero and Maple were certainly HOF worthy..

I beg to differ. At least Kent can ride when he wants to and actually has a strong sense of pace/race dynamics. Maple was a wide riding, clueless clown whose best attribute was that he was WHITE, and how Romero ever got in the mix (and Solis) is just flat out ridiculous. Romero? Solis? Maple? What is this the SPECIAL, the CHALLENGED Hall of Fame for jocks? Who's next, Luzzi and Potts?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I beg to differ. At least Kent can ride when he wants to and actually has a strong sense of pace/race dynamics. Maple was a wide riding, clueless clown whose best attribute was that he was WHITE, and how Romero ever got in the mix (and Solis) is just flat out ridiculous. Romero? Solis? Maple? What is this the SPECIAL, the CHALLENGED Hall of Fame for jocks? Who's next, Luzzi and Potts?

I agree.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I agree.

hall of fame s/b tough tough tough to get into , even above avg riders should not get in , but once 1 gets in , then u can make a point for many other above avg riders

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I beg to differ. At least Kent can ride when he wants to and actually has a strong sense of pace/race dynamics. Maple was a wide riding, clueless clown whose best attribute was that he was WHITE, and how Romero ever got in the mix (and Solis) is just flat out ridiculous. Romero? Solis? Maple? What is this the SPECIAL, the CHALLENGED Hall of Fame for jocks? Who's next, Luzzi and Potts?

Maple rode many if not most of Woody Stephens' horses in the 1970s and 1980s. I don't think he would have riden him if he was so clueless. There have been jocks who are in the hall that have indicated that it is a great over-sight that Eddie hasn't gotten in. But we are all going to like certain riders for certain reasons. The hall is for what they have accomplished in their career. I wince at some who get in so early. But to throw Luzzi into this is a bit silly, don't you think?