Now does anyone still believe?...

...that Barbaro is better on the dirt than Bernardini and would have defeated him in the Preakness?

Barbaro was hands down probably the best turf 3YO in the world this year and maybe the best turf horse in the world period, but I am very comfortable saying that he wanted no part of Bernardini on the dirt.

Preakness (check in a runaway)

Jim Dandy (check in a public workout)

Travers

Jockey Club Gold Cup

BC Classic

Horse of the Year

.....4 more checks to go.....

[sumitas]

i think a lot of people believe Barbaro would have beaten any horse in the KD. i would have liked to have seen Barbaro take on Bernardini with his usual 4 to 5 weeks rest.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

I'm with you Joel, but I think a lot of people will still take Barbaro

[Five Star Derek]

Lets hope Bernardini can stay healthy and stays around for a four year old campaign. Could be an all-time great if he sticks around and continues to develop. It's great to watch him run.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Five Star Derek

Lets hope Bernardini can stay healthy and stays around for a four year old campaign. Could be an all-time great if he sticks around and continues to develop. It's great to watch him run.

Not a chance in hell if he wins the BC Classic

[Five Star Derek]

Originally Posted by Scav

Not a chance in hell if he wins the BC Classic

Your right. It's the unfortunate part of this game. I can still wish.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

...that Barbaro is better on the dirt than Bernardini and would have defeated him in the Preakness?

Barbaro was hands down probably the best turf 3YO in the world this year and maybe the best turf horse in the world period, but I am very comfortable saying that he wanted no part of Bernardini on the dirt.

Preakness (check in a runaway)

Jim Dandy (check in a public workout)

Travers

Jockey Club Gold Cup

BC Classic

Horse of the Year

.....4 more checks to go.....

This "best turf horse in the world" **** about Barbaro is laughable at best....

Why do people keep saying that?

You think Barbaro could have handled the 1 1/2 of the Epsom Derby, or Maybe beaten Hurricane Run, Electrocutionist, and Hearts Cry yesterday at Ascot?

What about Deep Impact? Think Barbaro could have worked him?

Barbaro was a really good horse, there is no doubt about that. But I could think of quite a few horses that he couldn't touch on the weeds.

Originally Posted by moodwalker

This "best turf horse in the world" **** about Barbaro is laughable at best....

Why do people keep saying that?

You think Barbaro could have handled the 1 1/2 of the Epsom Derby, or Maybe beaten Hurricane Run, Electrocutionist, and Hearts Cry yesterday at Ascot?

What about Deep Impact? Think Barbaro could have worked him?

Barbaro was a really good horse, there is no doubt about that. But I could think of quite a few horses that he couldn't touch on the weeds.

Certainly a valid point....Deep Impact and Hurricane Run are obviously the best in the world right now IN THEIR PRIMES, but I still believe that Barbaro had the potential to be the best turf performer in the world.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

You think Barbaro could have handled the 1 1/2 of the Epsom Derby, or Maybe beaten Hurricane Run, Electrocutionist, and Hearts Cry yesterday at Ascot?

1 1/2 would've been no problem for Barbaro with his pedigree

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

1 1/2 would've been no problem for Barbaro with his pedigree

Being President of the United States shouldn't be a problem for me either. I was born a U.S. citizen.

The 1 1/2 miles of the Epsom Derby might have been a problem for him if you have seen the layout of the course, and the size and quality of the field.

[irishtrekker]

We'll never know either way. Both could have demolished all of the future fields they faced, but since we haven't seen them race together, I don't think it's as easy to predict a win one way or the other. Certainly Bernardini's Beyers have been amazing. At the same time, Barbaro would probably have given him a good run in the stretch, and who knows which horse would have scrapped their way through to the wire?

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

...that Barbaro is better on the dirt than Bernardini and would have defeated him in the Preakness?

Barbaro was hands down probably the best turf 3YO in the world this year and maybe the best turf horse in the world period, but I am very comfortable saying that he wanted no part of Bernardini on the dirt.

Preakness (check in a runaway)

Jim Dandy (check in a public workout)

Travers

Jockey Club Gold Cup

BC Classic

Horse of the Year

.....4 more checks to go.....

Joel, I respect your knowledge, but by posting this you are basically just asking people to challenge your opinion. These two horses met one time together on the track and one horse ran about 400 yards and couldn't keep going.

No one, including yourself, knows what Barbaro would have turned into. Would he be a dominant superstar? Sure, thats possible. Could he have been a so called "one hit wonder". Sure, also somewhat plausible, but less likely. All in all, likely somewhere in between.

That being said, no one (again) can say who would have won on that day back in May. Bernardini romped, we all saw it. I think he ran a 113 or 114, what have you. I'll go on record with my opinion, I don't know if Barbaro could have hung with him that day, two weeks off his Derby effort. I think it would have been a spirited drive for the wire.

[Gander]

Amen. I am so sick about hearing the Barbaro comparisons. Why Barbaro? Why not Secretariat? Skip Away? Butterface?

Havent we heard Barbaro's name enough this year? I do wish him all the best in his recovery but enough is enough.

There is no logical way to even guess who would have won the Preakness had Barbaro not broken down. How could anyone, even the experts, know?
Maybe we didnt even see Barbaro's best yet. The whole race's complexion changes if the breakdown does not occur and both horses run at 100%.

Geex, no more Barbaro comparisons please. Lets just say that both horses are awesome and clearly the #1 and #2 three year olds we've seen this year.

[sumitas]

Barabro is #1 at this point, clearly. I agree with Danzig.

And Joel do you still believe that Lady Of venice is the greatest three year old grass filly?

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by oracle80

And Joel do you still believe that Lady Of venice is the greatest three year old grass filly?

So he was wrong about Lady of Venice and that makes him wrong about Bernardini? I find it funny that the only detractors of Bernardini are fans who can't see past Barbaro (I remember you yourself raved about his Preakness, then backed off); objective racing experts think he's the real deal (and no, it doesn't mean they are comparing him to all-time greats or anything premature like that). I haven't heard one racing writer denigrate this horse because Barbaro broke down in the Preakness or the track came up sloppy (Yeah, cause Bernardini was a sure thing on a kind of track he'd never seen before).......

Originally Posted by Betsy

So he was wrong about Lady of Venice and that makes him wrong about Bernardini? I find it funny that the only detractors of Bernardini are fans who can't see past Barbaro (I remember you yourself raved about his Preakness, then backed off); objective racing experts think he's the real deal (and no, it doesn't mean they are comparing him to all-time greats or anything premature like that). I haven't heard one racing writer denigrate this horse because Barbaro broke down in the Preakness or the track came up sloppy (Yeah, cause Bernardini was a sure thing on a kind of track he'd never seen before).......

I havent backed off him. I think hes a very good horse whose being made to look better by the fact that whats left of this three year old crop isn't very good, to say the least.
If you are gonna pull up old threads and beat your chest, how about pulling up the Scat Daddy is so great and lady of venice are so great threads as well.

Originally Posted by Betsy

So he was wrong about Lady of Venice and that makes him wrong about Bernardini? I find it funny that the only detractors of Bernardini are fans who can't see past Barbaro (I remember you yourself raved about his Preakness, then backed off); objective racing experts think he's the real deal (and no, it doesn't mean they are comparing him to all-time greats or anything premature like that). I haven't heard one racing writer denigrate this horse because Barbaro broke down in the Preakness or the track came up sloppy (Yeah, cause Bernardini was a sure thing on a kind of track he'd never seen before).......

Betsy I don't really care how you see things to be honest. The reason I brought up Lady of venice and Scat Daddy is that they were two examples I felt of horses who ran races that looked better to most people than they did to me. I felt they were very good horses, not great as described by Joel. I went on record this Saturday as saying that Venice was a total tossout before the race.
WIth Bern I think only an idiot would not concede that hes by far the best three year old in training and that hes a very good horse. But I'm reading HOY stuff and a RIDICULOUS comparison to horses like Ghostzapper. I can't stop laughing hard enough at that.
Its not Bern's fault that Barb broke down in that race and that SNS was sore and that Bro got hurt in the gate. His fig was great. Its also not Bern's fault that there is nothing left to beat in the 3YO ranks. But lets face it, before hes worthy of HOY cinch status and Ghostzapper comparisons, hes gotta actually hook up with a real field and win. If you think that running away from Hemingway's Key(I still can't stop laughing about that) is going to be like running away from Invasor or Ghostzapper or Lava Man you have another thing coming. Horses like that arent gonna be defeated with one knockout punch move, that move will. propel you past the three year olds left standing and take you to victory, against horses like Flower Alley or Invasor they arent just gonna let you cruise by and open up. Bern has also never won a stretch duel and never been tested in a case like that.

When I looked at the PP's on Lady of Venice and then said I might take her I thought she would be a price because of the company she had run against so far. The others had faced much tougher. I was wrong as everyone jumped on this horse. I jumped off. I think the track did not help her however.

Originally Posted by pgardn

When I looked at the PP's on Lady of Venice and then said I might take her I thought she would be a price because of the company she had run against so far. The others had faced much tougher. I was wrong as everyone jumped on this horse. I jumped off. I think the track did not help her however.

Well Lady Of Venice had every chance of winning the race. I honestly dont think she got that good of a ride. But she was very game in her defeat. I mean she lost to Angara who is a good turf horse. I think this was a great race for LOV. Shows that she is able to stay with the big girls.