Interesting discussion

[Split Rock]

There is an interesting discussion taking place about possible cheating with illegal drugs and trainers defending themselves.

Click http://www.valentoraces.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=85
if you want to chime in.

[sumitas]

Thanks for posting the link. Racing certainly needs drug standards, certified labs for testing, and stiff punishment for offenders. Hopefully we are getting closer to a level, safe, playing field across the country.

[ateamstupid]

I've always said that I refuse to come to a conclusion on this topic until I've heard (or at least read) words that may or may not be from Jamie Ness.

[Scav]

I almost have to get a log on to start **** with Ness.

Ok, I just did

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Scav

I almost have to get a log on to start **** with Ness.

Ok, I just did

I would love to see Ness respond to your question, but somehow, I doubt he will answer it directly. The other defender on the thread named Webgems, or something like that, is Ness's biggest owner so of course he is going to defend.

I'd like to believe his hard work, reading the form, watching replays and training method are the keys to his success, but as you said, the instant move-ups can't possibly be "training methods". Ask Cannon how much a horse can be "trained" in the 7-14 days after a claim. Then you get the move up in class and bam, a easy winner.

[golfer]

Another question for Chuck:

How proprietary are training methods, are there really legitimate "secret" things some trainers do that others know nothing about? In other words, why can't a guy who is getting ridiculous results, and being accused of nefarious methods, just come out and say, this is what I do as far as training methods are concerned?
Because, it would seem to me, that this would be the best way to answer the critics, with specific, concrete examples of what is being done with individual horses.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by golfer

Another question for Chuck:

How proprietary are training methods, are there really legitimate "secret" things some trainers do that others know nothing about? In other words, why can't a guy who is getting ridiculous results, and being accused of nefarious methods, just come out and say, this is what I do as far as training methods are concerned?
Because, it would seem to me, that this would be the best way to answer the critics, with specific, concrete examples of what is being done with individual horses.

We all train on the same track, with the same help, feeding pretty much the same feeds, using the same vets. There are no "secret" training methods.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

I would love to see Ness respond to your question, but somehow, I doubt he will answer it directly. The other defender on the thread named Webgems, or something like that, is Ness's biggest owner so of course he is going to defend.

I'd like to believe his hard work, reading the form, watching replays and training method are the keys to his success, but as you said, the instant move-ups can't possibly be "training methods". Ask Cannon how much a horse can be "trained" in the 7-14 days after a claim. Then you get the move up in class and bam, a easy winner.

Scott Lake told Andy Beyer his success was from NOT training them after he claimed them. This guy says that his success is from "getting them fit" which I would take as training them harder. LOL. There may be a rare occasion that you find something out of order like a bad tooth, bad shoe, abcess, ulcers, ect. that can turn around quickly. I doubt that 41% of his claims have such issues.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I doubt that 41% of his claims have such issues.

Well said.

I'm not sure why these guys feel the need to speak out and proclaim their innocence. When they do speak on their own behalf, they just sound silly.

Just shut up and keep winning 50% of your races until the test man catches up to you.

[Scav]

I have one question. Can you please explain how you get huge move ups (5-7pts on the Thorograph sheets) with horses that you recently claimed (14-17 days) that have shown horrible form, only to go up in class and romp by a wrapped up 5 lengths.

I have no idea if you have positives or not, but please don't try and tell people that you are getting move ups from watching replays and reading the form....

As Bigs said, I doubt I am getting a response