Kidd to Mavs

[Cannon Shell]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102

NJ did well in getting a good, 24 year old PG and freeing up a bunch of salary cap space in addition to getting a number #1 and #2. Though Dallas figures to make the playoffs and the picks wont be very high, the fact is that there have been many late draft picks that have made big impacts lately and the salary structure for incoming players is already pretty set. If only they hadnt wasted so much money resigning Carter...

Stephon is on the trading block.

They're going to miss Stackhouse in the playoffs. Dirk is not exactly Mr. Clutch in crunch time.

[moke0043]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

They're going to miss Stackhouse in the playoffs. Dirk is not exactly Mr. Clutch in crunch time.

Totally agree about Dirk totally crumbling when the Mavs need him most.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

They're going to miss Stackhouse in the playoffs. Dirk is not exactly Mr. Clutch in crunch time.

Dirk has troubles with long, athletic guys bothering him on the perimeter and against Golden State, he certainly had his struggles. But I would like to argue that Dirk doesn't come through in the clutch. Look back to that series in 2006 against the Spurs. Dirk went for 27.1 points and 13.3 boards in that seven game series, including 37 and 15 in the final game, at San Antonio. In the next series, against Phoenix, he went for 28.0 and 13.2 in a six game series, including a 50 point night in game five after the Suns had tied the series. Those numbers went down to 22.8 and 10.8 in the championship series against Miami and he had 29 and 15 in the final game. How much more is one guy supposed to do? It just so happened that his team was beaten by a better player in Wade.

Dirk has career averages of 22.3 points and 8.6 rebounds per game, numbers that go up to 25.2 and 11.1 in the playoffs. That's not what a choker does. How many superstars have led their teams to titles in the last 25 years?

Moses Malone
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Isaiah Thomas
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
Dwayne Wade

That means that a whole lot of other superstars have lost in the clutch. Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Patrick Ewing were all superstars but they lost when they went up against a better player in Jordan. That's not a disgrace. Dirk's struggles last year reminded me of Magic back in 1981 against the Rockets when the 54-win Lakers were upset in the first round by the 40-win Rockets.

Compare Dirk's career playoff numbers to the greats in the history of the game and I think that you would be surprised at how he rates.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Dirk has troubles with long, athletic guys bothering him on the perimeter and against Golden State, he certainly had his struggles. But I would like to argue that Dirk doesn't come through in the clutch. Look back to that series in 2006 against the Spurs. Dirk went for 27.1 points and 13.3 boards in that seven game series, including 37 and 15 in the final game, at San Antonio. In the next series, against Phoenix, he went for 28.0 and 13.2 in a six game series, including a 50 point night in game five after the Suns had tied the series. Those numbers went down to 22.8 and 10.8 in the championship series against Miami and he had 29 and 15 in the final game. How much more is one guy supposed to do? It just so happened that his team was beaten by a better player in Wade.

Dirk has career averages of 22.3 points and 8.6 rebounds per game, numbers that go up to 25.2 and 11.1 in the playoffs. That's not what a choker does. How many superstars have led their teams to titles in the last 25 years?

Moses Malone
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Isaiah Thomas
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
Dwayne Wade

That means that a whole lot of other superstars have lost in the clutch. Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Patrick Ewing were all superstars but they lost when they went up against a better player in Jordan. That's not a disgrace. Dirk's struggles last year reminded me of Magic back in 1981 against the Rockets when the 54-win Lakers were upset in the first round by the 40-win Rockets.

Compare Dirk's career playoff numbers to the greats in the history of the game and I think that you would be surprised at how he rates.

Yeah the thing is there's no Jordan now. All three of the guys you mentioned would've had a ring if they played in this era.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yeah the thing is there's no Jordan now. All three of the guys you mentioned would've had a ring if they played in this era.

The point was that usually, the best will beat the second best. Tim Duncan is arguably the best power forward in the history of the game and will likely be ranked as a top 20 player of all time if not top 10. To come up short against a team led by him is not a disgrace. Dirk's prime years have come during the prime years of Duncan's. LeBron is arguably the best in the game now and he came up short to Duncan's team too. Wade had one of the greatest series' ever in the league. He's a future hall of fame player. To lose to another great player (teamed with a motivated Shaq) doesn't mean he choked.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Certainly Barkley and Malone's teams would have won in a non-Jordan era. Funny thing about Ewing was that his team had a shot against a non-Jordan team in The Finals.

Ewing played very well in that championship against Olajuwon.

Watching the Knicks in the mid-90s was great, great sports theatre in New York.

Barkley and Malone both were playing in the years that Jordan sat out and Ewing got to the finals. They just lost to a better player in Olajuwon. What is interesting is that the Rockets beat Malone's Jazz and Barkley's Suns in BOTH title years.

[King Glorious]

I like the trade. I think Dallas had to make the move in order to go after a title now. Kidd will help them more THIS SEASON than Harris will. Tomorrow is never guaranteed. This is the same thing I liked about Phoenix' trade for Shaq. If, as an owner or general manager, you look at your roster and know that you are good but not going to win a title, you make moves that you believe will make you better now. Simple. This is the problem the gm in Chicago didn't understand. They had chances last year and in the off-season to trade for Garnett or Gasol. They didn't make either move because they didn't want to get rid of Deng or Gordon. Those guys are fine players but as constructed, the Bulls were NOT going to win a title. So why hold on to them? Harris is a fine player and will be around for years after Kidd is gone but the chance to win a title is now so I applaud the move. The obvious area that it will hurt Dallas is in losing Diop. As unproductive as he is offensively, when combined with Dampier, they are at least a presence on defense and if nothing else, a big body and six more fouls to use against the dominant inside men of the West (Shaq, Bynum, Stoudamire, Duncan, Ming). It will not surprise me if after the Nets buyout Stackhouse, he resigns with the Mavs. One thing that I think the Mavs blew was the chance to sign Chris Webber. Webber is merely a shadow of his former self but I think he could have fit in well off of the bench for this team. If Dallas had pulled the trigger on this deal earlier, the addition of Kidd might have been enough to make Webber want to go there instead of to Golden State.

The playoffs in the West this year are probably going to be as strong as ever in the history of the game. It's going to be brutal. I think that it's going to be so brutal that it could actually end up helping the team that wins the East to the title. I think back to the first half of the 1980's when the East was so strong with Boston, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee and while they were killing each other, the Lakers were skating through the West.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I like the trade. I think Dallas had to make the move in order to go after a title now. Kidd will help them more THIS SEASON than Harris will. Tomorrow is never guaranteed. This is the same thing I liked about Phoenix' trade for Shaq. If, as an owner or general manager, you look at your roster and know that you are good but not going to win a title, you make moves that you believe will make you better now. Simple. This is the problem the gm in Chicago didn't understand. They had chances last year and in the off-season to trade for Garnett or Gasol. They didn't make either move because they didn't want to get rid of Deng or Gordon. Those guys are fine players but as constructed, the Bulls were NOT going to win a title. So why hold on to them? Harris is a fine player and will be around for years after Kidd is gone but the chance to win a title is now so I applaud the move. The obvious area that it will hurt Dallas is in losing Diop. As unproductive as he is offensively, when combined with Dampier, they are at least a presence on defense and if nothing else, a big body and six more fouls to use against the dominant inside men of the West (Shaq, Bynum, Stoudamire, Duncan, Ming). It will not surprise me if after the Nets buyout Stackhouse, he resigns with the Mavs. One thing that I think the Mavs blew was the chance to sign Chris Webber. Webber is merely a shadow of his former self but I think he could have fit in well off of the bench for this team. If Dallas had pulled the trigger on this deal earlier, the addition of Kidd might have been enough to make Webber want to go there instead of to Golden State.

The playoffs in the West this year are probably going to be as strong as ever in the history of the game. It's going to be brutal. I think that it's going to be so brutal that it could actually end up helping the team that wins the East to the title. I think back to the first half of the 1980's when the East was so strong with Boston, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee and while they were killing each other, the Lakers were skating through the West.

Ok so now it looks like there is another problem with the deal. George's punk ass doesn't want to go so that was the first problem. Cuban didn't want to sign and trade Van Horn because of luxury tax issues. But he resigned himself into knowing that he'd have to in order to make the deal go through. Now the league is saying hold-up because of the fact that Stackhouse admitted publicly what should have been common knowledge. He said that he was going to re-sign with Dallas after the Nets bought out his contract and he waited the required 30 days. Big deal. That is not necessarily a side deal. Stackhouse would be free to sign wherever he wants to and if it's his choice to go back to Dallas, so be it. If I knew this was likely to happen, how come it's seemingly coming as a shock to everyone else now? People knew that Damon Stoudamire was looking for a buyout so he could sign with San Antonio. The Boston newspapers were reporting that Cassell was looking for a buyout so he could sign with the Celtics. Come on now. Guys know what they are planning on doing so Stackhouse is no different.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Ok so now it looks like there is another problem with the deal. George's punk ass doesn't want to go so that was the first problem. Cuban didn't want to sign and trade Van Horn because of luxury tax issues. But he resigned himself into knowing that he'd have to in order to make the deal go through. Now the league is saying hold-up because of the fact that Stackhouse admitted publicly what should have been common knowledge. He said that he was going to re-sign with Dallas after the Nets bought out his contract and he waited the required 30 days. Big deal. That is not necessarily a side deal. Stackhouse would be free to sign wherever he wants to and if it's his choice to go back to Dallas, so be it. If I knew this was likely to happen, how come it's seemingly coming as a shock to everyone else now? People knew that Damon Stoudamire was looking for a buyout so he could sign with San Antonio. The Boston newspapers were reporting that Cassell was looking for a buyout so he could sign with the Celtics. Come on now. Guys know what they are planning on doing so Stackhouse is no different.

Yeah, it would be like if everyone knew most of baseball was on steroids and the league did nothing but then a book came out publicizing it all and suddenly they jump to crack down on it cause of that when everyone knew what was going on all along.

[King Glorious]

Before Stoudamire got bought out by the Grizzlies, everyone pretty much knew he would sign with San Antonio when it did happen. Same thing with Cassell and the Celtics. Hell, the Boston papers were writing stories about it when the Clippers just went to Boston saying that he was in the process of negotiating his buyout so he could sign with Boston. I mean, come on. People know what's going on. As I said, if I can report that on here, there's no way to tell me that NBA people couldn't see that too. Personally, this is where I think the league does things to make themselves look awful shady. The Lakers deal was a complete steal. But it improved a team in the second biggest market in the league. Then things couldn't get any better for the league when the Suns traded for Shaq. Now they have the possibility of Shaq vs Kobe for the West title and if the Lakers win, the Lakers vs Celtics for the league title. Stern is probably wetting himself daily over the possibilities. Now, the Mavs pull this off and not only could it ruin Stern's plans but also maybe end up with him having to present the championship trophy to his arch enemy in Mark Cuban. Now way he wants this.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Before Stoudamire got bought out by the Grizzlies, everyone pretty much knew he would sign with San Antonio when it did happen. Same thing with Cassell and the Celtics. Hell, the Boston papers were writing stories about it when the Clippers just went to Boston saying that he was in the process of negotiating his buyout so he could sign with Boston. I mean, come on. People know what's going on. As I said, if I can report that on here, there's no way to tell me that NBA people couldn't see that too. Personally, this is where I think the league does things to make themselves look awful shady. The Lakers deal was a complete steal. But it improved a team in the second biggest market in the league. Then things couldn't get any better for the league when the Suns traded for Shaq. Now they have the possibility of Shaq vs Kobe for the West title and if the Lakers win, the Lakers vs Celtics for the league title. Stern is probably wetting himself daily over the possibilities. Now, the Mavs pull this off and not only could it ruin Stern's plans but also maybe end up with him having to present the championship trophy to his arch enemy in Mark Cuban. Now way he wants this.

It isn't that the NBA didn't know exactly what was going on. It is that Stackhouse publicly said what was going on so the NBA could no longer try and claim ignorance.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It isn't that the NBA didn't know exactly what was going on. It is that Stackhouse publicly said what was going on so the NBA could no longer try and claim ignorance.

I'd rather people be honest instead of keeping quiet and trying to be sneaky and trying to act like everyone's stupid.

Stack said he was only part of the deal to make the numbers work. Nothing wrong with that. It's done in every trade. He said he'd have 30 days off to rest and then he'd be back. This was in Adrian Wojnarowski's column on Yahoo on Wednesday:

For New Jersey, president Rod Thorn would get back the three elements he most wanted for Kidd: a good young player (Harris), expiring contracts (Diop and George) and draft picks. What’s more, the Nets plan to buyout the rest of Stackhouse’s contract. Stackhouse can become an immediate free agent, but must wait 30 days to re-sign with Dallas.

One league source expected Stackhouse to return to the Mavericks if the trade had been completed.

Stackhouse said "Getting bought out, if that happens, my first choice would be to come back to Dallas. I'm settled in, just bought a house," he said.

So now a guy doesn't have the right to say what his choices would be?

[golfer]

[quote=Cannon Shell]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102

NJ did well in getting a good, 24 year old PG and freeing up a bunch of salary cap space in addition to getting a number #1 and #2. Though Dallas figures to make the playoffs and the picks wont be very high, the fact is that there have been many late draft picks that have made big impacts lately and the salary structure for incoming players is already pretty set. If only they hadnt wasted so much money resigning Carter...[/QUOTE]

I agree (I may be the only Nets fan on this board ) Re-signing Carter was based on Kidd being around. Unless he steps up his game now that Kidd is gone, the present and near-future aren't that bright. But they may now try to trade Carter.