"Ostrich" Congress puts head in the sand and votes for debt increase

[joeydb]

So, we can preserve our "AAA" rating by borrowing another $2.1T that we can't repay.

Uhh...what good is a credit rating when you can't repay your debt?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

So, we can preserve our "AAA" rating by borrowing another $2.1T that we can't repay.

Uhh...what good is a credit rating when you can't repay your debt?

Who is telling you we can't repay our debt? That's not true. We are repaying our debt. We always repay our debt. Our AAA credit rating is because we repay our debt. That's what a credit rating "is". We are the most trusted debt repayer in the world. When financial markets go crazy, the markets go to US Treasuries.

There were idiots in Congress and the Senate yesterday that were trying to make it so that we could NOT repay our debt. Fools. "We owe this money, but we've decided we won't pay it" Oh yeah? I don't think so. We are the USA. Not someone like IL Tea Party darling Congressman Joe Walsh that owes $100,000 in unpaid child support to his ex-wife. No wonder idiots like him think it literally "doesn't matter" if you don't pay what you owe!

Especially the idiots that thinks, "it's a lie, we have the money". Duh. If that were true, we'd not have to borrow, right?

Every business borrows for cash flow. Every country does, too.

You know, you don't give away trillions in income by going to "part time" income level, then double your debt and increase your spending on the credit card for years in the future by trillions. We had a former cheerleader that did that to us.

Just cutting the spending - although admirable - will never get you back to your normal financial situation. It's mathematically impossible. You need to get that full-time income back, too.

Because our population is increasing, and our infrastructure is crumbling, and Wall Street has all the money and isn't letting it go, even though their profits have been record, bonuses record, and taxes low as hell.

The recession cut our tax income a bit. But the Bush Tax cuts literally threw us off the clift, and is still doing so. Our income is only 14% of our GDP, when it normally is 20% or so. That's how much it's dropped. Let those puppies expire, and our debt is cut in half in about 10 years, doing nothing else at all.

BTW, we've been worse in the hole a couple of times before in our history.

Let's remind ourselves what caused our debt, because it's things we can control, and we get that income stream back, and very readily.

National debt 14 trillion

3.6 trillion - Social Security trust fund

4.0 trillion - Bush, unfunded wars, unfunded Medicare drug giveaway
3.0 trillion - Bush, unfunded tax cuts

2.0 trillion - loss of income due to unemployment and recession

1.4 trillion - Obama policies, temporary stimulus (most paid back), etc.

So, Joey, if you want to stand with the "non-ostriches", as you think they are, you'd better explain how that works. Using math and facts and stuff. Because now we have a few billion in spending cuts that kick in with Octobers 2012 budget, and a few more after that in 2013, and we're still in a recession and that oughta put us near a double dip. Yay! Brilliant! Let's stop spending, and take more money out of the economy, when we are on the verge. That worked so well for Japan, and for us in extending a depression into The Great Depression. Repeating those mistakes looks really promising.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Who is telling you we can't repay our debt? That's not true. We are repaying our debt. We always repay our debt. Our AAA credit rating is because we repay our debt..

That's a fairytail. We always pay the interest on our debt and like a good credit card customer keep those balances at the limit even if the limit keeps going up. We even 'borrow' from our fixed income grandparents to keep it going. Even when we tax and or make more we always find something to spend it on whether it be a war or paying for and destroying cars so people will buy new ones.

What was the last year we paid down our debt and not just interest towards the debt? How much was the paydown? lol There is a point of no return and sadly we're headed full steam for it!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

That's a fairytail. We always pay the interest on our debt and like a good credit card customer keep those balances at the limit even if the limit keeps going up.

Nope. No fairytail. You present a T-bill for cash, and it's cashed, with interest. You don't only get paid interest.

The last year we paid down our debt was right before Bush W. put us in the crapper. And I think his first year did, too.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nope. No fairytail. You present a T-bill for cash, and it's cashed, with interest. You don't only get paid interest.

The last year we paid down our debt was right before Bush W. put us in the crapper. And I think his first year did, too.

If you could do that with a treasury credit there would be no problem. But you can't and that's where the fairytail part starts.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

If you could do that with a treasury credit there would be no problem. But you can't and that's where the fairytail part starts.

Sigh.

All we have to do is have the Treasury take a credit from column A to column B, issue a bill, and place the cash in that account as needed.

It's what we've been doing for years. We've never been 1 day late on any payment.

Is this really too hard to understand? The only fairy tale is the Tea Party understanding of "finance". I find it amazing some are freaking out over something that has been being ably taken care of for years.

Now - tell your Congress to get your income back, that they gave away! You have bills you have agreed to pay!

Never mind, they are on vacation from their 4-day-a-week, two weeks on, one week off terrible schedule. Leaving the swamps of Washington for a month to avoid the heat and malaria. Just like the founding fathers.

[Antitrust32]

I hope the ceiling is never raised again.

I certainly dread the day when our debt reaches 25 trillion, 30 trillion, etc.

that is what it will look like if the dems and repubs keep their game going. they do NOT care about the future of this country.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

that is what it will look like if the dems and repubs keep their game going. they do NOT care about the future of this country.

My anger at Congress for leaving the FAA existence hanging? Plus the 90,000 small business contractors currently working for FAA for runway safety construction that had to be furloughed without pay? No pay for food, no pay for car payments, no pay for mortgage?

(Happy August! Were you planning on driving your kid to college this month? Buying school supplies? Paying a tuition payment?)

We are losing 30 million a day in FAA fees? While the airlines are grabbing that up as profit by keeping ticket prices the same?

(and they say consumer protection agencies are not needed, right)

Congress, who was too damn lazy to stay one more day and take care of this (they asked Boehner, he said they'd deal with it when they got back) - well, they have cost us 1.2 billion

1.2 billion. We worry, while they vacation.

Hey Congress? JOBS? You know, here's 94,000 you could have had paid in August. Let alone the 1.2 billion you'll cost us.

Rand Paul is gonna get an earful at his first local town hall You are absolutely correct, they don't care one bit. How dare they do this, to these poor people.

Let's do the math: this happened because GOP wanted 16.5 million in cuts. They are costing us 1.2 billion by doing so.

Reckless, irresponsible, spenders, the GOP. They haven't changed a bit since the Bush years. Demagogue and cost us money, and people their jobs, food, cars ....

Where the hell is the Tea Party on this matter? Oh, they rushed home for vacation.

WASHINGTON — A stalemate that has partially shut down the Federal Aviation Administration will continue into September. A spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Senate Democrats were unwilling to accept cuts in subsidies for rural air service.

House Republicans had demanded the $16.5 million in subsidy cuts as part of a bill to continue the FAA's operating authority. Senate Democrats repeatedly tried and failed to pass their own bill without the cuts.

The FAA's operating authority expired 11 days ago, as well as the authority of airlines to collect about $30 million a day in ticket taxes. If allowed to continue until Congress returns to work next month, the cost in lost revenue will be an estimated $1.2 billion.

Nearly 4,000 FAA employees have been laid off.

[Antitrust32]

Riot, the dems do the same things, its not just the GOP. When I look at Obama I see GW Bush.

we need a complete goverment overhaul. The politicians should be volunteers who only get paid a per deim. Two term max. and lobbyists should be deemed unconstitutional and be tried for treason.

[Riot]

LOL - hang on, I'm typing on a friends laptop, had to delete my post and sign in again under my name ... movie and dinnah tonight!

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Riot, the dems do the same things, its not just the GOP. When I look at Obama I see GW Bush.

we need a complete goverment overhaul. The politicians should be volunteers who only get paid a per deim. Two term max. and lobbyists should be deemed unconstitutional and be tried for treason.

I am not in favor of term limits - I want the few good ones to stay forever, and we have elections every 2 years for the House.

I would love to pay them far less. It is very expensive in Washington, though, seriously, they don't usually own houses, they rent houses and bunk together. Won't hurt 'em, but have to pay them the inflated Washington rate. Still less than that cushy salary.

And why do they get lifetime free healthcare for their service to our country? Let them COBRA in like everyone else and pay up, then be forced to find insurance at age 60.

Somebody mentioned a TAX on lobbyist licenses. I fully agree. And an entry fee every time they walk in a door. But treason works, too

Citizens United has screwed us - we have to get that overturned, it's given them free reign.

[clyde]

LOL - hang on, I'm typing on a friends laptop, had to delete my post and sign in again under my name ... movie and dinnah tonight!



^^^^ She's dating a blind gorilla.

[Riot]

Yay! Reaganomics! Trickle down! Make the Job Creators feel safe and secure! Cut the debt! Cut taxes! Cut spending! Who cares if we are in a recession unnamed by about 0.1 percentage point GDP?

And the Democrats signed on to that proven wrong bs. ARG!

As relayed in Daily Kos, from JP Morgan website:

https://mm.jpmorgan.com/stp/t/c.do?i...tml*h_-1ni8eo3

A few quick macro thoughts on the debt deal

4) Impending fiscal drag for 2012 remains intact. The deal does nothing to extend the various stimulus measure which will expire next year: we continue to believe federal fiscal policy will subtract around 1.5%-points from GDP growth in 2012.

Its possible the fiscal commission could do something to extend some measure such as the one-year 2% payroll tax holiday, though we think unlikely, as it would need to be paid for, which would be tough. If anything, the debt deal may add modestly to the fiscal drag we have penciled in for next year.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by clyde

LOL - hang on, I'm typing on a friends laptop, had to delete my post and sign in again under my name ... movie and dinnah tonight!



^^^^ She's dating a blind gorilla.

No, someone who makes the mistake of allowing me to read over his shoulder ... then grab the laptop away

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, someone who makes the mistake of allowing me to read over his shoulder ... then grab the laptop away

You little dickens, you!

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, someone who makes the mistake of allowing me to read over his shoulder ... then grab the laptop away

Be careful pushing him tonight.

[Danzig]

from fact check, a few days ago:

http://factcheck.org/2011/07/debt-li...bate-round-up/

Debt Limit Debate Round-Up
Here's a look at the false and misleading claims that have plagued the political battle.
July 29, 2011



some excerpts:

Not Exactly 'Routine'

Obama said it has been "routine" for presidents to raise the debt limit in the past. "Since the 1950s, Congress has always passed it, and every president has signed it," he said July 25. That's true — in fact, every president since the 1940s except for Harry Truman raised the debt ceiling. But this increase is the largest in history, in inflation-adjusted dollars.We only found a few occasions that came anywhere close to the $2.4 trillion increase the White House wants this time around. There was a $1.6 trillion increase, in inflation-adjusted dollars, under President George H.W. Bush, and a $1.2 trillion increase, also inflation-adjusted, under President George W. Bush. During President Jimmy Carter's term, the limit was raised by nearly $1.4 trillion and $1.3 trillion in two separate instances



Social Security and the Deficit

Democratic Rep. Xavier Becerra of California said that he would "fight to take [Social Security] off the table" in budget negotiations, because it "hasn't contributed 1 cent to the deficit that we face today, nor 1 cent to any of the national debt, the $14.3 trillion." We take no position on whether Social Security should be cut, but it's wrong to say it's not contributing to the deficit.

Social Security benefits paid were more than payroll taxes in 2010, leading to a cash deficit of $49 billion. For 2011, the Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees project a $46 billion deficit. And those figures don't include the billions more the government will have to borrow to cover that reduction in payroll taxes that was in last year's deal to extend the Bush tax cuts. (which was stupid move).


Won't Get Much from Oil Companies

Obama said Republicans would rather cut Medicare than get rid of tax breaks for oil companies and corporate jet owners. But voters should know that the revenue from raising those taxes wouldn't even amount to 1 percent of the deficit.

The president, in his July 25 speech, said that "most Americans … don’t understand how we can ask a senior citizen to pay more for her Medicare before we ask a corporate jet owner or the oil companies to give up tax breaks that other companies don’t get." But most Americans may not know that those popular-sounding revenue raisers would only bring in about $39 billion over 10 years. That's less than one-half of 1 percent of the $9.5 trillion projected deficit over those 10 years. And it's also a small fraction of the $1.2 trillion in tax revenue the president reportedly has been seeking.

[Riot]

The effing deficit is not the problem. Lack of jobs and growth is the problem.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

The effing deficit is not the problem. Lack of jobs and growth is the problem.

i'm sure you saw this in the market slides thread:

If the plan is fully enacted, the deficits would shrink by less than $3 trillion over the next 10 years. That's less than the $4 trillion that bond rater Standard and Poor's said was needed to renew the government's AAA bond rating. It also fell short of what some investors were looking for.


the deficit is a problem, one of several.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm sure you saw this in the market slides thread:

If the plan is fully enacted, the deficits would shrink by less than $3 trillion over the next 10 years. That's less than the $4 trillion that bond rater Standard and Poor's said was needed to renew the government's AAA bond rating. It also fell short of what some investors were looking for.


the deficit is a problem, one of several.

Having jobs and a growing economy automatically shrinks the deficit by increasing tax income.

The market, for the past month, has been much more concerned about lack of growth, than what particular amount the deficit will be cut by. That's what all the op eds in the financial publications have discussed - that the false fight over the debt ceiling is just bullshiat politicing.

That (a particular amount) tied to our credit rating was only mentioned after the final deal was discussed (during the past week).

And Wall Street has been talking to the GOP, the Dems and the President all along. Wall Street instructed Boehner that the debt ceiling would be raised, and knew we would not default.

And I would like to remind you that Boehner and Obama agreed to a very good deal of $4 trillion in cuts, with increased tax revenue via closing loopholes - and the Tea Party nixed it, and the GOP who signed Grover's pledge backed off (even though Grover gave them an out, then reniged the next day) Boehner couldn't get that passed, even with the Democrats joining him. They had to drop it. So Wall Street now is snarking at the GOP, janking their leash.

Wall Street doesn't care where the market goes, up or down. They just want to be in the appropriate position to make money. They make money out of the destruction of a civilization, just like they make money in the growth and buildup. Remember they are not making money on the selling of any goods, or any manufacturing - they are making money on gambling and speculating.

So they don't give a shiat which way it goes, as long as somewhere in the world there's a place for them to store their profit, and there's a way to increase it.

[Cannon Shell]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...Tabs%3Darticle