Handle down? $281k bet into SA 6 Sunday..

[Kasept]

Remind me again about how off the industry's handle is..? Sunday, Santa Anita saw $281,000 bet into a non-carryover P6 and Opening Day saw $308,000. Access and large fields continue to produce wagering volume. The unavailability of signals was a bigger issue in the lousy 3rd/4th quarter revenue figures than was made out..

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Remind me again about how off the industry's handle is..? Sunday, Santa Anita saw $281,000 bet into a non-carryover P6 and Opening Day saw $308,000. Access and large fields continue to produce wagering volume. The unavailability of signals was a bigger issue in the lousy 3rd/4th quarter revenue figures than was made out..

Exactly.

[Kasept]

Not sure how many heard John Nerud on the topic 10 days ago on ATR, but he said that racing was the last sport affected during the Depression and that would be the case during this downturn as well. He said that the owners and breeders are in position to tread water until things stabilize, and the horseplayers simply budget themselves appropriately.

I've also maintained that '09 will present a great opportunity to the game to draw visits to the track from people who will be priced out of MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL seats. Specifically, the major event locales like Belmont, Santa Anita, Churchill and Arlington; the specialty venues like Saratoga, Del Mar and Keeneland; and intimate boutique venues like Tampa Bay, Colonial and Oaklawn need to make special efforts to promote visits from economically disenfranchised major sports 'fans'.

I don't know exactly what percentage of first time visitors can be captured as repeat customers, but drawing on my marketing background experience, I would estimate that 20-25 of 100 'new' patrons could be lured back to the track after initial visits, and at least 4-5 of those would become committed fans/horseplayers.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not sure how many heard John Nerud on the topic 10 days ago on ATR, but he said that racing was the last sport affected during the Depression and that would be the case during this downturn as well. He said that the owners and breeders are in position to tread water until things stabilize, and the horseplayers simply budget themselves appropriately.

I've also maintained that '09 will present a great opportunity to the game to draw visits to the track from people who will be priced out of MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL seats. Specifically, the major event locales like Belmont, Santa Anita, Churchill and Arlington; the specialty venues like Saratoga, Del Mar and Keeneland; and intimate boutique venues like Tampa Bay, Colonial and Oaklawn need to make special efforts to promote visits from economically disenfranchised major sports 'fans'.

I don't know exactly what percentage of first time visitors can be captured as repeat customers, but drawing on my marketing background experience, I would estimate that 20-25 of 100 'new' patrons could be lured back to the track after initial visits, and at least 4-5 of those would become committed fans/horseplayers.

Think of all the Jets and Cowboys fans that have open schedules now...

[SuffolkGirl]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Think of all the Jets and Cowboys fans that have open schedules now...

and Pats fans, too, GRRRR damn Jets!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not sure how many heard John Nerud on the topic 10 days ago on ATR, but he said that racing was the last sport affected during the Depression and that would be the case during this downturn as well. He said that the owners and breeders are in position to tread water until things stabilize, and the horseplayers simply budget themselves appropriately.

I've also maintained that '09 will present a great opportunity to the game to draw visits to the track from people who will be priced out of MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL seats. Specifically, the major event locales like Belmont, Santa Anita, Churchill and Arlington; the specialty venues like Saratoga, Del Mar and Keeneland; and intimate boutique venues like Tampa Bay, Colonial and Oaklawn need to make special efforts to promote visits from economically disenfranchised major sports 'fans'.

I don't know exactly what percentage of first time visitors can be captured as repeat customers, but drawing on my marketing background experience, I would estimate that 20-25 of 100 'new' patrons could be lured back to the track after initial visits, and at least 4-5 of those would become committed fans/horseplayers.

You think because the economy is poor that folks "newbies" will be available to go to the track? I don't think the poor economic conditions will be a positive..I think while Jon Nerud was accurate in his analysis of the past and I mean the way past, his take is very much flawed in todays world.

I suggest racetracks are basically theaters for pay per view events. You think Saratoga was slow last year wait till this summer. You think the sales ring was slow last year and averages where down wait till this year..

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Think of all the Jets and Cowboys fans that have open schedules now...

I think Eric Mangini has plenty of free time on his hands, If I knew his email I'd send him a referral to twinspires.com and collect the $50.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You think because the economy is poor that folks "newbies" will be available to go to the track? I don't think the poor economic conditions will be a positive..I think while Jon Nerud was accurate in his analysis of the past and I mean the way past, his take is very much flawed in todays world.

I suggest racetracks are basically theaters for pay per view events. You think Saratoga was slow last year wait till this summer. You think the sales ring was slow last year and averages where down wait till this year..

i think nerud may be right again. unlike the nfl, nba, mlb, etc-horse racing isn't dependant on ad revenue. nascar is hurting due to the huge hits that american auto makers are enduring. and of course it's a hell of a lot cheaper to buy tix to the track then it is to go to a football/baseball game. plus, horse racing fans are generally an older demographic, you can't lay off retired guys.

[sumitas]

Always uplifting to hear news about super handle . The sport needs to keep building on the momentum of drug testing, safety for horses and jockeys and the retirement of the horses after racing . These are all positive issues that can only help this sport succeed.

I think ESPN should receive an Eclipse for televising the post race victory celebrations in the private boxes . Better than SNL.

I think Christina Olivares should win an Oscar for having a great ass.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You think because the economy is poor that folks "newbies" will be available to go to the track? I don't think the poor economic conditions will be a positive.. I think while Jon Nerud was accurate in his analysis of the past and I mean the way past, his take is very much flawed in todays world.

I suggest racetracks are basically theaters for pay per view events. You think Saratoga was slow last year wait till this summer. You think the sales ring was slow last year and averages where down wait till this year..

For starters Freddy, Saratoga wasn't 'slow' last summer. The meet just got off to a horrific start... The odd calendar that provides for the earliest meet start possible, and numbingly dreadful weather, were far more influential in digging the hole to climb out of than the high gas prices at the time. And it was going to be impossible to match the 2007 numbers anyway which were driven by 36 days without a single drop of rain during race hours.

Secondly, Nerud's thinking is never flawed. By comparison to other forms of profesional sports, racing is virtually FREE entertainment. You don't think virtually free entertainment won't be an attractive diversion in a depression economy? I'll take Nerud's view and run with it.

[PSH]

How do the racetracks take advantage of this situation?
A depressed economy to attract newbies....
Increased marketing, not charging admission and parking.....
$1 beers? Free vouchers?

Oh, full fields and competitive racing would help too for the more hardcore players...
I would be for cutting back some of the days at certain tracks but that isn't going to happen....

PSH

[Scav]

Originally Posted by PSH

How do the racetracks take advantage of this situation?
A depressed economy to attract newbies....
Increased marketing, not charging admission and parking.....
$1 beers? Free vouchers?

Oh, full fields and competitive racing would help too for the more hardcore players...
I would be for cutting back some of the days at certain tracks but that isn't going to happen....

PSH

I think you are starting to see this though. Gulfstream has cut back to 5 days for the WHOLE year, Arlington this year raced Thursday - Sunday half the time (when Churchill was running) and added Wednesday's. Slowly but surely is unfortunetly the model of the industry.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by PSH

How do the racetracks take advantage of this situation?
A depressed economy to attract newbies....
Increased marketing, not charging admission and parking.....
$1 beers? Free vouchers?

Oh, full fields and competitive racing would help too for the more hardcore players...
I would be for cutting back some of the days at certain tracks but that isn't going to happen....

PSH

The hardcore players are going to play no matter what. It's the rest of the people/newbies that the sport has to try to attract. Get the people/families that won't/can't afford to buy tickets to sporting events. Market going to the track as a day of inexpensive entertainment (obviously I am talking about tracks/meets that run in the warmer months in the northeast, but certain tracks could do this year round). Things like cheap food, give aways and things to do for kids. Concerts after the races. Promote smaller type bets like .10 supers and maybe .50 pick 3's and 4's, so people realize that they might be able to make a score without having to put up alot of money. Have house handicappers be available to interact with patrons. But the important thing is just to get them to the track. Once there hopefully they will be hooked by the excitment of the sport that we all love and will eventually want to go back.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You think because the economy is poor that folks "newbies" will be available to go to the track? I don't think the poor economic conditions will be a positive..I think while Jon Nerud was accurate in his analysis of the past and I mean the way past, his take is very much flawed in todays world.

I suggest racetracks are basically theaters for pay per view events. You think Saratoga was slow last year wait till this summer. You think the sales ring was slow last year and averages where down wait till this year..

I would say a day at the track, by say a newbie family of four, can be very low cost entertainment when stacked against a professional sporting event. Will a newbie family pour money into a pick-6? No. But they will come to spend a nice day with their family, watch the races, maybe play a few small wagers, have a soda and a hot dog? Yes, they will.

I think a lot of people on the board and in general, racing wide, think of racing as just the bottom line wagering business. Granted, that is a good majority of what it is. But there is wiggle room to make money off of the casual fan or new fan. When you boil racing down to it's core and you ignore the money aspect, horse racing can be a captivating drama. Even at the lower levels, excitement can be had. With the economy in that shape it is, people, families, are looking for a break from reality, even for only 3 or 4 hours at a time. When you don't have to worry about work, bills, stuff like that.

Racing can provide an excellent suspension of reality for folks, and at a low cost. You don't need to have a hardcore wagering investment to enjoy it.
It's also worth noting that out of the last economic crisis in question (the Depression) one of the game's greatest icons was born, in Seabiscuit.
People didn't grow to love the horse because they were making money on him, they loved him because they saw a little bit of themselves in him.

I'm not saying any of this will replicate itself in any fashion, but there is a chance to make a mark on newer, casual fans. It shouldn't be dismissed outright as impossible.

[MaTH716]

Not to mention that it will also be planting the seeds for the future fans/players of the sport. Most of us got a taste of racing by going to the track as kids. Hopefully good expierences/times at the track will keep the families and then the children coming back for more when they get older.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

For starters Freddy, Saratoga wasn't 'slow' last summer. The meet just got off to a horrific start... The odd calendar that provides for the earliest meet start possible, and numbingly dreadful weather, were far more influential in digging the hole to climb out of than the high gas prices at the time. And it was going to be impossible to match the 2007 numbers anyway which were driven by 36 days without a single drop of rain during race hours.

Secondly, Nerud's thinking is never flawed. By comparison to other forms of profesional sports, racing is virtually FREE entertainment. You don't think virtually free entertainment won't be an attractive diversion in a depression economy? I'll take Nerud's view and run with it.

Saratoga adversely effected by fuel costs? I get it folks elected not to spend the delta between 60 gallons of fuel at 2 bucks versions 4 bucks or 120 "big bucks"..Hotels are 300-700 a night, dinner is 30-100 a head and folks were concerned about the 120 bucks the gas cost. If I was NYRA I would be looking at attendance and on track handle down 15% off of last years figs and that is with oil at 40 barrel. As for the rain, isn't it common knowledge that it rains a lot in Saratoga in the summer? Geez if I was booking a vacation to Aruba I would surely realize it is windy and warm.. Are we now willing to accept that folks don't realize it rains a lot at SPA?

What is flawed with Mr Nerud's opinion is that in 1970's racing had zero gambling competition..No casinos, No blood sucking lottery and no slot palors, no on line gaming and of course the advent of fantasy sports and online poker ..That is why you got 15k to the Meadowlands on a Saturday nite.. Plus in 1970 folks and subsequently that entire generation were still involved in racing. In the 70's folks were young enough to remember the glory of racing as it and for that matter boxing had the abilty to capivate this nation.. No such luck in 2009..people are a generation plus removed from racing as a glorious sport and the competition for gamblings alledgely recession proof dollars is fierce.

BTW explain to me what is so fn entertaining for my 5 year old to do Aqueduct tomorrow for 21 minutes between races.. What are we going to do smoke dope with the Rastas?

Granted if you own a horse or have trainer friends or have "ins" to get you in the paddock etc the track can be more of a friendly petting zoo then casino but really if Saratoga wasn't Saratoga and Delmar wasn't Delmar who the F would need to go to the track.. Believe me there is nothing fun for a 12 year Rachel Mo' to do at Monmouth on a Friday in July.. Other then pet your dads horse and hope you get to scream you would much rather be doing a million other things.

I seriously doubt this current economic sitution will do anything but further contract racing. This could be the long term silver lining.. Less trainers, less horses, less race dates, and consequently a stronger core that has the foundation to potentially reinvent itself and grow organically could be the healthy result..Unfortunately such revolution only comes with much pain and that is obviously the very sad part. While I appreciate and respect the thoughts of Mr Nerud this is 2009 not 1979 and nothing is the same.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

I would say a day at the track, by say a newbie family of four, can be very low cost entertainment when stacked against a professional sporting event. Will a newbie family pour money into a pick-6? No. But they will come to spend a nice day with their family, watch the races, maybe play a few small wagers, have a soda and a hot dog? Yes, they will.

I think a lot of people on the board and in general, racing wide, think of racing as just the bottom line wagering business. Granted, that is a good majority of what it is. But there is wiggle room to make money off of the casual fan or new fan. When you boil racing down to it's core and you ignore the money aspect, horse racing can be a captivating drama. Even at the lower levels, excitement can be had. With the economy in that shape it is, people, families, are looking for a break from reality, even for only 3 or 4 hours at a time. When you don't have to worry about work, bills, stuff like that.

Racing can provide an excellent suspension of reality for folks, and at a low cost. You don't need to have a hardcore wagering investment to enjoy it.
It's also worth noting that out of the last economic crisis in question (the Depression) one of the game's greatest icons was born, in Seabiscuit.
People didn't grow to love the horse because they were making money on him, they loved him because they saw a little bit of themselves in him.

I'm not saying any of this will replicate itself in any fashion, but there is a chance to make a mark on newer, casual fans. It shouldn't be dismissed outright as impossible.

Good post.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Suffolk Shippers

I would say a day at the track, by say a newbie family of four, can be very low cost entertainment when stacked against a professional sporting event. Will a newbie family pour money into a pick-6? No. But they will come to spend a nice day with their family, watch the races, maybe play a few small wagers, have a soda and a hot dog? Yes, they will.

I think a lot of people on the board and in general, racing wide, think of racing as just the bottom line wagering business. Granted, that is a good majority of what it is. But there is wiggle room to make money off of the casual fan or new fan. When you boil racing down to it's core and you ignore the money aspect, horse racing can be a captivating drama. Even at the lower levels, excitement can be had. With the economy in that shape it is, people, families, are looking for a break from reality, even for only 3 or 4 hours at a time. When you don't have to worry about work, bills, stuff like that.

Racing can provide an excellent suspension of reality for folks, and at a low cost. You don't need to have a hardcore wagering investment to enjoy it.
It's also worth noting that out of the last economic crisis in question (the Depression) one of the game's greatest icons was born, in Seabiscuit.
People didn't grow to love the horse because they were making money on him, they loved him because they saw a little bit of themselves in him.

I'm not saying any of this will replicate itself in any fashion, but there is a chance to make a mark on newer, casual fans. It shouldn't be dismissed outright as impossible.

If you are willing to put a few hundred in quarters into a slot machine every 60 days then you can get a room at Ceasars in Feb where the kids can play in an indoor pool, you and your wife and kids can have a free buffet with lobster and steak and your bill will be under 100 bucks when you leave..You might also win 1200 quarters? Trust me the kids will have a frickin ball in the game rooms at the casino and have fun running thru all the shops etc. Let's face it the hot dog or Carolina BBQ really has a tough story to tell the working guy's family..

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by freddymo

BTW explain to me what is so fn entertaining for my 5 year old to do Aqueduct tomorrow for 21 minutes between races.. What are we going to do smoke dope with the Rastas?

Granted if you own a horse or have trainer friends or have "ins" to get you in the paddock etc the track can be more of a friendly petting zoo then casino but really if Saratoga wasn't Saratoga and Delmar wasn't Delmar who the F would need to go to the track.. Believe me there is nothing fun for a 12 year Rachel Mo' to do at Monmouth on a Friday in July.. Other then pet your dads horse and hope you get to scream you would much rather be doing a million other things.

Agreed about Aqueduct. But that's not the type of meet that I was talking about promoting to families. January at Aqueduct is hardcore. You mention Monmouth. Have you ever been there on Sunday when they have things for the kids to do, and if so did she like it? Things like the inflatable jumpies, clowns, face painting, pony rides and so on? My oldest is 5 and he loves it. But I think they only have those things on Sundays. Maybe they could do them for Saturdays too.
I am not saying that this would be the ideal thing for kids to do all the time. But we are talking about cheaper means of entertainment. I'm just saying that there are/could be other ways to entertain people/kids at racetracks to draw them in on days when they don't want to spend lots of money to go to places like amusement parks, baseball games etc.....