YET another LOCK goes down due to excessive whipping

[the_fat_man]

Suzy Zip, FG R6 was all over the stretch while being whipped by Mena.

Haven't seen this significant and repeated change of direction by a horse in the stretch since Rene Douglas whipped Seaspeak senseless and got him beat on the turf at CD.

This really should become a sticky. These jocks really need to be publically embarrass when they do thing like this. How in the world does Mena find the nuts to face the horse's connections after the race? Or, how does Mena's agent let this kid out there?

HAND

RIDE

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm not sure I agree with that. First of all, it doesn't appear she was going by the leader, but also she shied from the winner when that one ducked out in the stretch. Now, I don't know what happened from there, but it was a sloppy track, and it's a bit of a stretch to say the whip caused the horse to duck out at least five paths.

I don't think she was winning and I'm also not sure the winner didn't foul her instigating the entire incident.

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Suzy Zip, FG R6 was all over the stretch while being whipped by Mena.

Haven't seen this significant and repeated change of direction by a horse in the stretch since Rene Douglas whipped Seaspeak senseless and got him beat on the turf at CD.

This really should become a sticky. These jocks really need to be publically embarrass when they do thing like this. How in the world does Mena find the nuts to face the horse's connections after the race? Or, how does Mena's agent let this kid out there?

HAND

RIDE

The first time the horse moved out was
a nudge out from the winner. The second
time almost looked like he was spooked.
By the whip or what I dont know. But he
bolted outside of his path.
Bizzare. Horse was clearly distressed.

[the_fat_man]

Disagree. Look at it again. She starts to go in under righty whipping as the leader takes a bad step and comes out. At that point, she ducks out significantly, Mena holding on for dear life. Immediately after, he bangs her righty again, causing her to go in significantly.

He already checked her on the backside for no apparent reason (on the pan shot) and had her in tight and pushing her way through entering the stretch. She enters with a clear run, and is giving her all. Why beat on her?

I agree that the horse coming out spooked her but if she's not under pressure from the whip maybe she doesn't duck out as bad. And, there's certainly no excuse to go to the whip AGAIN at that point.

What pisses me off is that, though not as drastic, these things happen ever day and cost horses victories. Of course, you might also be of the camp that believes that not keep a straight path does not result in ground loss of any significance.

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't think that horse was going by....so I can't agree that it cost the horse a victory.

You probably pay a lot more attention to the whipping, and how it affects horses, so I can't argue with you about that. In this case it's not hard to believe, however, that the wet track may have at least exacerbated any reaction the horse had.

But, I do generally agree with you about the whip, and really don't understand in general why riders pound away. I understand sometimes the whip may help keep a horse's mind on the business at hand, but it seems to me that logic dictates a more fluid riding motion would be more proficient.

Just another reason I don't pay attention to riders.

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Disagree. Look at it again. She starts to go in under righty whipping as the leader takes a bad step and comes out. At that point, she ducks out significantly, Mena holding on for dear life. Immediately after, he bangs her righty again, causing her to go in significantly.

He already checked her on the backside for no apparent reason (on the pan shot) and had her in tight and pushing her way through entering the stretch. She enters with a clear run, and is giving her all. Why beat on her?

I agree that the horse coming out spooked her but if she's not under pressure from the whip maybe she doesn't duck out as bad. And, there's certainly no excuse to go to the whip AGAIN at that point.

What pisses me off is that, though not as drastic, these things happen ever day and cost horses victories. Of course, you might also be of the camp that believes that not keep a straight path does not result in ground loss of any significance.

Sorry she.
I dont think any horse wants a serpentine
run down the stretch. Man you call that a duck
out, I call that bolting out 7 or 8 lanes.
And I dont think she gets the winner.
But ya never now with that strange run.

Watched it blown up.
That horse responded
very adversely to the whip
three different times.

First right hand moves towards rail.
Second bolts out, jock almost loses
his strap, horse badly distressed.
Third right again horse moves hard
towards rail. That horse does not
like the whipping. If there were
any others close could have been
a real mess.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You probably pay a lot more attention to the whipping, and how it affects horses, so I can't argue with you about that. In this case it's not hard to believe, however, that the wet track may have at least exacerbated any reaction the horse had.

But, I do generally agree with you about the whip, and really don't understand in general why riders pound away. I understand sometimes the whip may help keep a horse's mind on the business at hand, but it seems to me that logic dictates a more fluid riding motion would be more proficient.

Just another reason I don't pay attention to riders.

I could be wrong as this is something I've begun to focus on only after I started riding fixed gear. It makes sense that jocks aren't aware of this as they're not the ones doing the 'work', the horse is, and the jocks' intent is to get the horse to run as fast as it possibly can. From their perspective, beating it up is the best way to do so. So, for example, Coa repeatedly busts a game Lear's Princess with the whip, when she's tired and courageously giving her all, while being asked to go a distance of ground that's probably too far for her. IMO, he cost her TWO wins because of this.

Of course, track and field athletes realize that the best way to RUN FAST is by keeping in good form and stride; as speed loss results from the loss of form. If your form is good you'll run straight. If you're tired, and your form falls apart, you won't. If you're tired and you're getting beaten on, you'll run even more crooked --- especially if you've already started to bear out or in.

Horses not keeping straight paths because of excessive whipping is a common occurance. AND, it costs horses wins, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I
Of course, track and field athletes realize that the best way to RUN FAST is by keeping in good form and stride; as speed loss results from the loss of form. If your form is good you'll run straight. If you're tired, and your form fall apart, you won't. If you're tired and you're getting beaten on, you'll run even more crooked.

If you lose form while running a race you(a human) does not necessarily run crooked, but you definitely do not run as fast. It is extremely difficult to focus on form when you are really tired. But if you dont, you lose turnover rate as well as stride length.

Again I intrude, but I like working with kids
in track and cross country as I loved both.
Damn difficult.

[The Bid]

You think thats a lot of whipping watch Weldon Collinger ride one at TWP.

[the_fat_man]

Since I met some resistance, I needed to come up with a better example; and wouldn't you know it, Wesley Henry Sr. helped me out today at TAM on Western Kinston.

Let's see: the 6 comes in at the break slamming Western Kinston, who FREAKS OUT and proceeds to drive the 6 outwards, into the 7. WK settles down stalking nicely. He's goes by the leader easily early stretch when Wesley decides he needs to sticky LEFTY. WK responds by lugging out a bit. But Wesley doesn't catch on too well and he sticks LEFTY AGAIN. Immediately, WK DUCKS OUT like a rocket, so much so that he's out of the picture in the headon. What's amazing is that he actually got 4th. If this weren't dangerous it'd be ridiculously funny.

Hand ride would've sufficed, Wes.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

stay gold TFM.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

If you lose form while running a race you(a human) does not necessarily run crooked, but you definitely do not run as fast. It is extremely difficult to focus on form when you are really tired. But if you dont, you lose turnover rate as well as stride length.

Again I intrude, but I like working with kids
in track and cross country as I loved both.
Damn difficult.

glad you brought this up.

i've been going to the gym, and have started jogging--attempting to work my way up to just jogging, and no walking. right now i usually walk an eighth, and run at LEAST a quarter mile at a time, usually a half mile-then walk another 1/8th...usually go at least three miles to three and a half in that manner. the other day i had a great workout, a ton of running. felt great. the next day i struggled. is that usually how it is? i haven't run track in years, so i don't have a coach to help me out...

any hints would be appreciated.

[slotdirt]

Danzig - it's called DOMS - Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. Our resident PT could probably help explain it better than I can. Anywho, sometimes you feel great after exercise, then feel like your ass got kicked the next day or three.

[TheSpyder]

I once trained and ran a marathon so I know what you're saying. May want to get a book. I would have te same sort of thing and it's lactate acid build up after a hard work. The best thing I found was to alternate from fast pace to slow pace days. The running/walking you're refering to is called interval training. May want to check this out:
http://planetultramarathon.wordpress...tempo-running/

Originally Posted by Danzig

glad you brought this up.

i've been going to the gym, and have started jogging--attempting to work my way up to just jogging, and no walking. right now i usually walk an eighth, and run at LEAST a quarter mile at a time, usually a half mile-then walk another 1/8th...usually go at least three miles to three and a half in that manner. the other day i had a great workout, a ton of running. felt great. the next day i struggled. is that usually how it is? i haven't run track in years, so i don't have a coach to help me out...

any hints would be appreciated.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Danzig - it's called DOMS - Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness. Our resident PT could probably help explain it better than I can. Anywho, sometimes you feel great after exercise, then feel like your ass got kicked the next day or three.

That's why you need to "milkshake" yourself.

Originally Posted by golfer

That's why you need to "milkshake" yourself.

Actually I tried this about 3 times
with sodium bicarb.

Look at my notes and no real diff in times
in races or the way I felt. The studies
say it works for ultra runners. I never touched
that level of self sacrifice.

[Danzig]

thanks guys! i'm hoping to eventually lose the walking altogether. we shall see.