Dirt racings demise?

Cannon Shell · #1 09-08-2007, 08:00 PM

http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=40614

She had me until she called Gulfstreams surface "superior". That would be the 1st time I have ever heard of that particular track talked about in any positive manner let alone superior.

sumitas · #2 09-08-2007, 08:26 PM

I hope she wasn't paid for that piece.

Echo Farm · #3 09-09-2007, 07:37 AM

I hope they don't waste the paper and ink and put it in the hard copy. The Bloodhorse seems to me to be in a decline.

jpops757 · #4 09-09-2007, 08:13 AM

Somthing I have always questioned is where is the money? I dont know if any of you remember. About 25-30 years ago Remington had an artificial track. It was supposed to be similar to the euro tracks. The horsemen, writers, jockeys, and anyother person remotely involved in the industry complained about it. I thnk it was there 2yrs before they were forced to replaced it. We heard all the pluses of the surface voiced the same way back then but it was never accepted or adjusted to.. What I see now as the big differance is Keenland versus Remington Is it someting so simple as ,"wheres the money"? Who is pocketing the profits from selling this stuff?

paisjpq · #5 09-09-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Farm

I hope they don't waste the paper and ink and put it in the hard copy. The Bloodhorse seems to me to be in a decline.

they did.

Antitrust32 · #6 09-09-2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpops757

Somthing I have always questioned is where is the money? I dont know if any of you remember. About 25-30 years ago Remington had an artificial track. It was supposed to be similar to the euro tracks. The horsemen, writers, jockeys, and anyother person remotely involved in the industry complained about it. I thnk it was there 2yrs before they were forced to replaced it. We heard all the pluses of the surface voiced the same way back then but it was never accepted or adjusted to.. What I see now as the big differance is Keenland versus Remington Is it someting so simple as ,"wheres the money"? Who is pocketing the profits from selling this stuff?

Keeneland owns 50% of the polytrack put in North American tracks, Martin Collins LLC owns the other 50%. Michael Dickinson owns Tapeta. I have no idea who owns Cushion track.

jpops757 · #7 09-09-2007, 09:03 AM

The PR people for these artifocial surfaces have done a great job. First the included Keenland in there profit making and then learned to use stats to make you look like a dirty commie if you opposed the artificial surface.

JJP · #8 09-09-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=40614

She had me until she called Gulfstreams surface "superior". That would be the 1st time I have ever heard of that particular track talked about in any positive manner let alone superior.

I realize us bettors may view things differently than trainers, but I don't know of too many handicappers who had issues with the GP surface. And yes, we SHOULD have a voice as well. If you listen to the Keeneland mgmt and California track management, the only thing that matters is the owners and trainers....and that just isn't right.

Cannon Shell · #9 09-09-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

I realize us bettors may view things differently than trainers, but I don't know of too many handicappers who had issues with the GP surface. And yes, we SHOULD have a voice as well. If you listen to the Keeneland mgmt and California track management, the only thing that matters is the owners and trainers....and that just isn't right.

No one said that betters should not have a say in the matter but to call Gulfstream a "superior" surface is like calling a Ford Focus a luxury car. The fact is that you guys do have a vote and it is with your betting dollars. And if you have a beef than it should be with your fellow bettors because handle at Del Mar this summer was strong and Keeneland has had record handle levels since putting in artificial surfaces. Maybe some bettors dont like the new surfaces but it seems that many do.

philcski · #10 09-09-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said that betters should not have a say in the matter but to call Gulfstream a "superior" surface is like calling a Ford Focus a luxury car. The fact is that you guys do have a vote and it is with your betting dollars. And if you have a beef than it should be with your fellow bettors because handle at Del Mar this summer was strong and Keeneland has had record handle levels since putting in artificial surfaces. Maybe some bettors dont like the new surfaces but it seems that many do.

Bettors like large fields, and both delivered. I hate them both and didn't play Del Mar after the opening weekend, especially considering there are synthetic surfaces which play comparable to traditional dirt (see: Arlington, Presque Isle, even Turfway), which tells me the track maintenance is to fault.

Cannon Shell · #11 09-09-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Bettors like large fields, and both delivered. I hate them both and didn't play Del Mar after the opening weekend, especially considering there are synthetic surfaces which play comparable to traditional dirt (see: Arlington, Presque Isle, even Turfway), which tells me the track maintenance is to fault.

Have you been consulting with No Chance to Dance?

philcski · #12 09-09-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Have you been consulting with No Chance to Dance?

Well, we're both named Phil. Otherwise... no. I hate the stuff. I don't understand how Arlington can supposedly have the same sh!t and have reasonably run races and at Del Mar the horses in the stretch look like watching ducks swim upstream into Niagara Falls. Nobody had issues at Hollywood, either...

Sightseek · #13 09-09-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Have you been consulting with No Chance to Dance?

If he has I'm forming an intervention.

Cannon Shell · #14 09-09-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Well, we're both named Phil. Otherwise... no. I hate the stuff. I don't understand how Arlington can supposedly have the same sh!t and have reasonably run races and at Del Mar the horses in the stretch look like watching ducks swim upstream into Niagara Falls. Nobody had issues at Hollywood, either...

Do we really want all tracks to play the same?

philcski · #15 09-09-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Do we really want all tracks to play the same?

No, of course not- but the idiosyncrasies of Saratoga vs. Monmouth vs. Belmont is one thing, watching horses look like they can barely walk after running a :50 half is another.

Sightseek · #16 09-09-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

No, of course not- but the idiosyncrasies of Saratoga vs. Monmouth vs. Belmont is one thing, watching horses look like they can barely walk after running a :50 half is another.

I'd definitely agree with that.

SniperSB23 · #17 09-09-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

No, of course not- but the idiosyncrasies of Saratoga vs. Monmouth vs. Belmont is one thing, watching horses look like they can barely walk after running a :50 half is another.

Not to mention that an artificial dirt surface should at least remotely resemble dirt racing. It looks more like bad turf racing.

Cannon Shell · #18 09-09-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Not to mention that an artificial dirt surface should at least remotely resemble dirt racing. It looks more like bad turf racing.

Paint it green?

MisterB · #19 09-10-2007, 12:22 PM

Gamblers would bet on horses running on ICE. As far as GP goes, she must have meant the back streach is top notch. The track sucks donkey balls.

SniperSB23 · #20 09-10-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

Why should synthetic surface racing resemble dirt racing? It's a different material, just as turf and dirt are different.

It is fine if they want to treat it as a third surface and add it to the two existing surfaces at major tracks. What I don't like is the idea of a surface completely different from dirt replacing dirt tracks.