invasor is similar to alysheba

alysheba4 · #1 04-01-2007, 09:49 AM

in the fact that they can win at ANY race track whether its santa anita, pimlico, churchill , belmont.....whatever. you just dont see that type of versatility anymore, i hope invasor comes back to the states and continues to
the b. cup.

ArlJim78 · #2 04-01-2007, 09:58 AM

Good Point, also he can handle different types of adversity, pace, traffic, etc.
He is an amazing battler, warrior.
being versatile, extremely fast, and having the ability to really run all day are a great combination. I have made the comment before that he is a very agile, athletic horse, with great poise as well.

POINTGIVEN1985 · #3 04-01-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Good Point, also he can handle different types of adversity, pace, traffic, etc.
He is an amazing battler, warrior.
being versatile, extremely fast, and having the ability to really run all day are a great combination. I have made the comment before that he is a very agile, athletic horse, with great poise as well.

if invasor runs his race, can any horse currently in training beat him ?

Danzig · #4 04-01-2007, 10:07 AM

article after the dwc says suburban is next on the agenda for invasor.

Holland Hacker · #5 04-01-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alysheba4

in the fact that they can win at ANY race track whether its santa anita, pimlico, churchill , belmont.....whatever. you just dont see that type of versatility anymore, i hope invasor comes back to the states and continues to
the b. cup.

IMHO Invasor is better than Alysheba, Alysheba couldn't run without Lasix. He finished 4th in the Belmont when he ran without Lasix.

ArlJim78 · #6 04-01-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

IMHO Invasor is better than Alysheba, Alysheba couldn't run without Lasix. He finished 4th in the Belmont when he ran without Lasix.

I think so too, I was just trying not to be confrontational.

Danzig · #7 04-01-2007, 10:21 AM

always liked alysheba, he was a heck of a horse. i even named a dog after him!
but i think invasor is better then alysheba. he's better than a lot of horses that have been given 'great' labels.

miraja2 · #8 04-01-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

IMHO Invasor is better than Alysheba, Alysheba couldn't run without Lasix. He finished 4th in the Belmont when he ran without Lasix.

True, but despite winning the Derby, Preakness, and Super Derby as a 3yo, Alysheba ws much better as a 4yo than he was in his 3yo campaign.
He won 6 G1s & a G2 as a 4yo including the Big Cap and the BCC. Right now I think it is a pretty fair comparison, although I too would probably give the slight edge to Invasor.
IF, however, Invasor continues to race this year, wins a couple more G1s and repeats in the BCC (right now there are a lot of reasons to think he might do that) he will move way past Alysheba and will have to move into the discussion with a pretty elite group of horses. This one is impressive.

King Glorious · #9 04-03-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

IMHO Invasor is better than Alysheba, Alysheba couldn't run without Lasix. He finished 4th in the Belmont when he ran without Lasix.

Exactly. This nag couldn't run without lasix. His Belmont proved that. Forget the fact that he won the 1988 Woodward at Belmont while setting a TRACK RECORD of 1:59 2/5. That means nothing at all. The Belmont proved it all.

Invasor is a very nice horse. I admit that I had him extremely underrated all along. But he's no Alysheba. What a lot of people do when they look at Alysheba is look at the overall record. They see that he was 26-11-8-2 and say that's not a great record for an all-time great. I believe that starting after the Blue Grass Stakes (which he was clearly the best while winning only to be disqualified), he ran 16 times. I believe he won 10 of those races with three thirds. This came while running all over the country (Churchill, Pimlico, Belmont, Monmouth, Saratoga, Louisiana Downs, Hollywood, Santa Anita, Meadowlands), setting at least two track records at 10f (Meadowlands and Belmont), and running at least three sub-2:00 10f races. In those last 16 races, the following are the only horses to finish in front of Alysheba:

Derby-won
Preakness-won
Belmont-Bet Twice, Cryptoclearance, Gulch
Haskell-Bet Twice
Travers-Java Gold, Cryptoclearance, Polish Navy (maybe a couple more)
Super Derby-won
BC Classic-Ferdinand
Strub-won
SA Hcp-won
San Bernardino-won
Pimlico Special-Bet Twice, Lost Code, Cryptoclearance
Hollywood Gold Cup-Cutlass Reality
Iselin-won
Woodward-won
Meadowlands Cup-won
BC Classic-won

When he was losing, it was in the best of company that was out there. He was losing to multiple grade one winners when he was getting beaten. Invasor has the better record. Many horses have better records. But how many of them faced race in and race out the kind of competition that Alysheba faced in those two years?

Sightseek · #10 04-01-2007, 10:27 AM

Alysheba did set some track records though...

Danzig · #11 04-01-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Alysheba did set some track records though...

yes he did. er, if i wanted to be a smart ass, i'd say so did najran...but i don't, so i won't!! lol

Sightseek · #12 04-01-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

yes he did. er, if i wanted to be a smart ass, i'd say so did najran...but i don't, so i won't!! lol

Well that is truthful as I think Bandini had a track record too but I thought Alysheba's records came from breaking a long-standing record. I'm not sure if they were a product though of the circumstances surrounding the race ie. set-up, track condition.

Danzig · #13 04-01-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Well that is truthful as I think Bandini had a track record too but I thought Alysheba's records came from breaking a long-standing record. I'm not sure if they were a product though of the circumstances surrounding the race ie. set-up, track condition.

no, he broke the 10f at meadowlands--he ran several sub-2.00 10f races in a row, i think that was a record as well. i'm being a bit facetious in comparing him to the great najran.

i don't think i'm taking a thing away from alysheba if i say i think invasor is better. i think invasor is THAT good.

pmayjr · #14 04-01-2007, 10:42 AM

I'll throw a Seabiscuit comparison out there too. Has Invasor ever romped in a race? I think he seriously toys with his opponents. Premium Tap was game all the way down the stretch yesterday, and Invasor drew even with him for a long time, and then in deep deep deep stretch he puts on the afterburners and blows by him.

saucon17 · #15 04-01-2007, 10:49 AM

A couple of months ago when McCarron was on TVG Legends.
G Stevens asked him of all the great Handicap horses he rode
what horse would you ride if they were all in the same race this
included Sunday Silence, Tiznow, Alysheba, Alphabet Soup and
many others. CJ said no question it would be Alysheba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz99ipc-KOw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjyPzs0uTM

Hickory Hill Hoff · #16 04-01-2007, 10:41 AM

Right now, Invasor is the more talented horse because of his race record. Alysheba got better with age in his four old season. He wasn't anything without lasix though, in the long run it may come to the breeding shed where one does better than the other...Alysheba has kinda been a bust.

Cannon Shell · #17 04-01-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Right now, Invasor is the more talented horse because of his race record.

You are joking right?

Slewbopper · #18 04-01-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Right now, Invasor is the more talented horse because of his race record. Alysheba got better with age in his four old season. He wasn't anything without lasix though, in the long run it may come to the breeding shed where one does better than the other...Alysheba has kinda been a bust.

Sheba ran a sub 2:00 1 1/4 in the 87 Woodward WITHOUT lasix. Regarding race records, it is hard to comapre Invasor's 11 for 12 with Sheba's 11 for 26.

Cannon Shell · #19 04-01-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

Sheba ran a sub 2:00 1 1/4 in the 87 Woodward WITHOUT lasix. Regarding race records, it is hard to comapre Invasor's 11 for 12 with Sheba's 11 for 26.

I also think that Invasor would be hard pressed to win 11 against the horses that Alysheba ran against.