Watered down Graded Stakes

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Since 2004, there have been a grand total of zero horses to win at least one Graded Stakes race and make more than ten starts in Graded Stakes races in the same year.

In the year 1996 alone - 7 different horses managed to do just that. Serena's Song made 15 starts in Graded Stakes, Diplomatic Jet 14, Shoop 14, Mecke 13, Editor's Note 12, Victory Speech 12, and Honour And Glory 11.

In 1996, 58 different horses who won atleast one Graded Stakes race that year made 11 or more starts that year alone in all races .. ungraded stakes, alw, etc included. I don't have an ARM or Graded Stakes yearbook with last years runners in it .. but I would expect the number to be 5 or less as opposed to the 58 it was in 1996.

Not only are good horses racing dramatically less often over the last 12 to 15 years ... but their connections seem to be trying much harder than ever to avoid facing other good horses ... and worst of all - the number of Graded Stakes appear to be fairly consistent in number to where they were about 12 to 15 years ago.

I guess this best explains how a field like last weekends Haskell could be described as an all-time great field .. only to see a strong favorite winner run no faster than nobuddy 4yo Omniscient did earlier in the day, a strong second choice in the betting running 2nd in his Graded Stakes debut, and a 1-for-9 3rd place finisher get his 4th straight Grade 1 placing.

With the way horses are being campaigned now - you'd have to eliminate a huge number of Graded Stakes races to almost force them into coming together to counter the watering down effect. That's obviously not going to happen.

Thankfully, admirably consistent top class horses like Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Quality Road, Gio Ponti, Lookin At Lucky, Eskenderya, Blind Luck, Devil May Care, Rail Trip, and Blame have all been there for us to deny a pile of truly despicably unworthy horses from winning important Grade 1 races.

These top class slayer of slowpokes have combined to prevent so many miserable bums from winning Grade 1 races .. that I think we should all give them a round of applause.

Gio Ponti just had a horse who was defeated in a 35K claimer last out run 2nd to him in a Grade 1 .. but who can forget his fine work last year, when he denied Grade 1 wins from such swine 2nd place finishers as Marsh Side, Muskatieer, and Just As Well ... if only he could have outdueled Interpretation!

The watering down process of these big races have obviously allowed top horses of today to put together big resumes so much easier than top horses who raced even 10 years ago had to deal with.

[Sightseek]

Was Rachel's 7 last year the closest of any other horse since '04 to make 10 graded stakes appearances?

[Travis Stone]

The graded stakes system is in dire need of a critical assesssment and review. At the core, grading a race before it is run is goofy. Some ask how you can market a race that's not graded to the public. I say the public doesn't give a hoot what grade it is... they care about the horses runnng in it, even that's a stretch. If the graded stakes system were gone tomorrow, and the Travers was non-graded like every other race, would less people show up for it? Of course not.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The graded stakes system is in dire need of a critical assesssment and review. At the core, grading a race before it is run is goofy. Some ask how you can market a race that's not graded to the public. I say the public doesn't give a hoot what grade it is... they care about the horses runnng in it, even that's a stretch. If the graded stakes system were gone tomorrow, and the Travers was non-graded like every other race, would less people show up for it? Of course not.

You would have a lot of breeders in uproar.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Was Rachel's 7 last year the closest of any other horse since '04 to make 10 graded stakes appearances?

Nope.

Cowboy Cal and Be Fair both made 10 starts in Graded Stakes company last year.

Thorn Song was the only to make 10 in 2008.

Nobiz Like Shobiz the only to make 10 in 2007.

Like I said, you have to go back to 2004 to find a horse whos made more than 10. Seven different horses did more than ten in '96 alone.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

You would have a lot of breeders in uproar.

For sure... but the truth hurts.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

For sure... but the truth hurts.

It's such a crazy system. You have breeders saying the purses are not big enough to keep a horse in training, yet stakes with big purses don't fill.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The Breeders would riot if they put me in charge of Grading the stakes races right now. I would be slashing races of status left and right. Some Gr 1's would become Gr 3's. Some Gr 2's would become ungraded. Basically eliminating options for good horses in each division and almost forcing their hand into the same one or two likely spots for each start.

[tiggerv]

It's long past time to dump the Breeders Cup and take away some of the incentive to avoid tough races all year in order to prep for 1 racing day.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

It's long past time to dump the Breeders Cup and take away some of the incentive to avoid tough races all year in order to prep for 1 racing day.

No, you don't understand, it's the Super Bowl of racing, it's the biggest day, it's the biggest races, it's the most important, it's the 1 race that makes a campaign, it's the 1 set of races that if you win you're a champion.

Love,

Zenyattafan

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

No, you don't understand, it's the Super Bowl of racing, it's the biggest day, it's the biggest races, it's the most important, it's the 1 race that makes a campaign, it's the 1 set of races that if you win you're a champion.

Love,

Zenyattafan

This is so wrong and gay its really not even funny. How many G 1 and G 2 races has Z won the last 3 years, besides the 2 BC wins?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

This is so wrong and gay its really not even funny. How many G 1 and G 2 races has Z won the last 3 years, besides the 2 BC wins?

You're right, it was so much more interesting for her 2009 campaign to go Milady-Vanity-Hirsch-Lady's Secret-BCC than something like Louisville-Hollywood Gold Cup-Hirsch-Pacific Classic-Goodwood-BCC.

In fact, this year it has been way more interesting to see her in the Santa Margarita-Apple Blossom-Vanity than the Big Cap-Apple Blossom-Louisville-Hollywood Gold Cup.

I forgot how important the little numbers are next to those races. If you are a fan of thoroughbred racing then the mind-numbingly boring campaign of the "stars" this year (Zenyatta, Rachel, QR) is something you have to be very disgusted about.

NT

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You're right, it was so much more interesting for her 2009 campaign to go Milady-Vanity-Hirsch-Lady's Secret-BCC than something like Louisville-Hollywood Gold Cup-Hirsch-Pacific Classic-Goodwood-BCC.

In fact, this year it has been way more interesting to see her in the Santa Margarita-Apple Blossom-Vanity than the Big Cap-Apple Blossom-Louisville-Hollywood Gold Cup.

I forgot how important the little numbers are next to those races. If you are a fan of thoroughbred racing then the mind-numbingly boring campaign of the "stars" this year (Zenyatta, Rachel, QR) is something you have to be very disgusted about.

NT

Im sorry for calling something you said gay, I got a little carried away.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Im sorry for calling something you said gay, I got a little carried away.

I accept your apology for thinking I took what you posted seriously.

NT

[slotdirt]

I know if I ran the graded stakes committee, the general So-Cal circuit would have quite a few less graded races.

[Gate Dancer]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The Breeders would riot if they put me in charge of Grading the stakes races right now. I would be slashing races of status left and right. Some Gr 1's would become Gr 3's. Some Gr 2's would become ungraded. Basically eliminating options for good horses in each division and almost forcing their hand into the same one or two likely spots for each start.

While I basically agree with this...............actually given the 'state of the state' of racing, some of this may happen naturally due to economic conditions and/or some track closures.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

This is so wrong and gay its really not even funny. How many G 1 and G 2 races has Z won the last 3 years, besides the 2 BC wins?

If not for Zenyatta getting er done ...

* Taptam would win the Grade 1 Apple Blossom and be soundly beaten next out in an ungraded stake at Delaware Park.

* Dance to my Tune would win the Grade 1 Santa Margarita instead of being a loser of 20 straight races like she is now.

* Gio Ponti would be a Breeders Cup Classic winner ... if that's not the greatest atrocity I've ever heard in my life .. I don't know what is.

* Lethal Heat would be the winner of the Grade 1 Ladies Secret instead of a horse who is currently on a nine race losing streak. Also - the Ladies Secret Stakes wouldn't be renamed after a horse that is still running like it is now.

* Anabaa's Creations would be the winner of the Grade 1 Clement L Hirsch - instead of being a 6-year-old who is still eligible for an N3X alw race - and has lost 13 of her last 14 starts.

* Briecat would be the winner of the Grade 1 Vanity Handicap. She was last seen running 6th at Turf Paradise in a 50K stake. A typical last place finish for her.

* Cocoa Beach would be a Breeders Cup Distaff winner. She was off the board in the 65K Floral Park Stakes at Belmont Park as the 1/9 favorite in her next start on dirt. That was her next and last start on dirt.

* Model would have won the '08 Clement L Hirsch by 5+ lengths before running a well beaten 3rd to Wake Up Maggie in an ungraded stakes race at the same meet a few weeks later.

* Santa Tarista would have won the Milady one start before losing by 26 lengths at Delaware Park next out.

* Brownie Points would be the '08 Apple Blossom winner. Her next dirt start would see her running a well beaten 5th behind Miss Issella.


Sure, Zenyatta has never faced Rags To Riches, Nashoba's Key, or Rachel Alexandra even once ..... but she has prevented so many incredible racing injustices from occurring that it absolutely boggles the mind.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Like I said, you have to go back to 2004 to find a horse whos made more than 10. Seven different horses did more than ten in '96 alone.

Was it Perfect Drift?

I like Travis' idea of not grading races until the entries are out.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Steller Jayne and Gygistar.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

In the year 1996 alone - 7 different horses managed to do just that. Serena's Song made 15 starts in Graded Stakes, Diplomatic Jet 14, Shoop 14, Mecke 13, Editor's Note 12, Victory Speech 12, and Honour And Glory 11.
.

Shoop had a strange career... From 1996-1997 she was a graded winner and multiple Grade I placed.. by 2001 she was 10 and running in claiming races.. maybe she was really a gelding masquerading as a mare..