NYRA Late Pick 5

[ateamstupid]

Was there ever an official explanation for why that went away? Was it making too much money? It's a serious bummer not to have a low-takeout option on the second half of these weekend cards.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Was there ever an official explanation for why that went away? Was it making too much money? It's a serious bummer not to have a low-takeout option on the second half of these weekend cards.

Just a guess but was the low takeout P5 hurting the higher takeout pick 4 and P6?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Just a guess but was the low takeout P5 hurting the higher takeout pick 4 and P6?

That's the beauty of a free market. But I suspect you're right, and if so, to me that's a slap in the face to your customers--introduce a low-takeout bet, have them support it immensely, and then take it away to force them into higher takeout bets.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Was there ever an official explanation for why that went away? Was it making too much money? It's a serious bummer not to have a low-takeout option on the second half of these weekend cards.

Looking forward to your article on this very subject. Please post a link. I suppose they are protecting the Pick 6 but why? Saturdays early pick 5 pool starting at 8:30 am Out west was nearly 30% more than the pick 6. A pick 5 ending in the Belmont would have been off the charts.

[NTamm1215]

It is an interesting conversation. I am 100% in favor of a late Pick 5. No question about it. I firmly believe at the 15% takeout it is the best bet in racing by a colossal margin.

From the track's perspective, it boils down to which wager they are afraid it will cannibalize. The Pick 6 on a non-carryover day (at NYRA) has a similar low takeout. You have to think the concern would be it hurting Pick 4 handle, which was robust on Saturday (3.8 mil). In fact, more was bet on the P4 ending with the Belmont than was on the P4 ending on the Derby (3.3 mil). Of course, there was another 1.7 mil bet into a P5 on Derby day.

The mistake, obviously, is thinking about what wager a certain player-friendly bet will hurt. Instead, the public should be given as many options as possible and be allowed to choose. We can all dream...

[MaTH716]

It must have to do with the pick 6, right? They have the early pick 5 and 4 on each other already. What would be the difference to do it late as well?

I believe that the pick 6 player is a totally different animal anyway. I know for me personally, I'll always play the pick 5 and then depending, sometimes the 4 also, but I am never jumping into the pick 6 pool. I realize that I just don't have the bankroll for it and rather take a healthy swing at a pick 5 than a half hearted feeble stab at a pick 6.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

It must have to do with the pick 6, right? They have the early pick 5 and 4 on each other already. What would be the difference to do it late as well?

I believe that the pick 6 player is a totally different animal anyway. I know for me personally, I'll always play the pick 5 and then depending, sometimes the 4 also, but I am never jumping into the pick 6 pool. I realize that I just don't have the bankroll for it and rather take a healthy swing at a pick 5 than a half hearted feeble stab at a pick 6.

Perfectly stated

I would always take a pick 4 shot also even if still alive in the 5.. Would look to go deeper in legs of the Pick 4 I wasn't in the Pick 5.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

It must have to do with the pick 6, right? They have the early pick 5 and 4 on each other already. What would be the difference to do it late as well?

I believe that the pick 6 player is a totally different animal anyway. I know for me personally, I'll always play the pick 5 and then depending, sometimes the 4 also, but I am never jumping into the pick 6 pool. I realize that I just don't have the bankroll for it and rather take a healthy swing at a pick 5 than a half hearted feeble stab at a pick 6.

This is my approach too. It's not as if now that there's no late Pick 5, I'm going to spend $200 on 100 lousy Pick 6 combos, and I also am not willing to bet a 24% rake Pick 4 with nearly the same resources I would the Pick 5. I'd estimate that my handle on these weekend cards has decreased by the thousands since they killed the late Pick 5.

NYRA has done a lot of good things in recent years, but this is a ridiculously dumb self-inflicted wound and something I hope would be rectified.

Probably making room for the Twin Exacta...

[Alabama Stakes]

Gotta think the couple if times they did it, it must have hurt the pick 4 pool , with the high 24% takeout, which they are trying to keep the same. I really think that Having the late pick 5 would draw more and moreCalifornia money and be a great thing. It's not like people are gonna hit a nice one and stop playing. 24% is excessive and we all know that. If they got that to 20% , it would be nice.

[jnunan4759]

In an ideal world they could just chop all the exorics to 15% and let the customer choose what pools to play in, regardless of take out. The pick 3, 4 and 6 would get a big daily boost. The Pick 6 would draw some West Coast money and larger carryovers and you wouldn't have discrimination on wager types via takeout.

This occurs and often tracks and horsemen turn the blind eye to it.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

product vs product , I still don't get the pick 6 pool at los al bieng 8 times as much as a ny on any day...or santa anita getting much more play daily then
belmont or toga..

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

product vs product , I still don't get the pick 6 pool at los al bieng 8 times as much as a ny on any day...or santa anita getting much more play daily then
belmont or toga..

Yeah, it's always been that way. Baffling. It's as if there is a severe allergy to the pick six on the East coast.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, it's always been that way. Baffling. It's as if there is a severe allergy to the pick six on the East coast.

It's baffling that people will choose a $.50 minimum bet with 15% takeout over a $2 minimum bet with an extra multiplier at 16-24% rake?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It's baffling that people will choose a $.50 minimum bet with 15% takeout over a $2 minimum bet with an extra multiplier at 16-24% rake?

I am admittedly ignorant on this, but has this type of disparity existed for decades?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It's baffling that people will choose a $.50 minimum bet with 15% takeout over a $2 minimum bet with an extra multiplier at 16-24% rake?

Actually, I recall in the late 80s and early 90a it was $2 with a high takeout in California.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I am admittedly ignorant on this, but has this type of disparity existed for decades?

No, but the Pick 6 has taken its biggest hit in New York since the Pick 5 was introduced. As to why it still does well in California, even now that they have the value-sucking jackpot structure, I can't answer that.

[MaTH716]

Coming back July 4th, but for NYRA account holders only. I just don't understand the logic. Why refuse money that would go into that pool? Some bettors (i.e. Jersey) have no choice on ADW's, we're stuck with the TVG/NJ Bets platform. This new idea just seems foolish and short sighted.

[jnunan4759]

Not sure that is a good idea. See that they are trying to get ADW clients, which is fine, but approaching it from an exclusionary basis might likely cause resentment.

The whole purpose of parimutuel betting is inclusion, not exclusion. If you want to offer incentives, rewards or rebates to your ADW customers, fine. I don't think it sends a good message to create an exclusive pool.

I can't be a NYRABets customer where I live, so I'm out.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

Not sure that is a good idea. See that they are trying to get ADW clients, which is fine, but approaching it from an exclusionary basis might likely cause resentment.

The whole purpose of parimutuel betting is inclusion, not exclusion. If you want to offer incentives, rewards or rebates to your ADW customers, fine. I don't think it sends a good message to create an exclusive pool.

I can't be a NYRABets customer where I live, so I'm out.

Ditto - agree on all. Let them retire the Grand Slam bet !
https://www.nyra.com/belmont/news/ex...aunches-july-4