Post BC Weekend thoughts

[Seattleallstar]

Didn't like how Arrogate finished his post Dubai career, he wen't from Man O' War to just a shadow of his former self. Which we can attribute to the Del Mar track and/or that his awesome campaign from that allowance win to Dubai took its toll. With that said I still think he is still in that Dubai Millennium, Ghostzapper, Mineshaft, and Candy Ride class of horse.

Other than that it was a very fun and exciting weekend of racing, despite taking a loss for the entire weekend. It's nice seeing racing alive and well, at the track and in the media.

[10 pnt move up]

Arrogate was never the same after Dubai, there is a reason why many trainers feel like they need more time after that trip, and while Gun Runner flourish it clearly hurt, more than hurt, Arrogate.

The vulnerable favorites were vulrnable, especially from the Baffert barn.

This track was very fair, it played a lot like Belmont in my opinion, you could close, you could win from the front yet the inside was not ideal.

I think the most disappointing things was Forever Unbridled winning, are we now onto the 2 race season before the BC? I saw a headline "Unbridled Forever finished perfect season", I mean this horse makes Zenyatta seasons look like iron man campaigns, honestly these trainers need to be doing more for the game. Run you dang horse.

The Euro horses connections also had to be very happy, their horses ran to form and seemed like the turf course was plenty fair.

I still think Bolt DOro is the best two year old, sometimes you get beat and outtripped, I would run again next month.

[hondo]

No issue with Forever Unbridled as most of the lay off horses that trained up to the BC flopped. She was trained with this race in mind and Dallas Stewart did a great job.

As for Arrogate he had a hell of a run and should be recognized for it .....some of his races were remarkable. However talk of him being compared Secretariat was premature. If you look at it he has not started well since the Pegasus including today. Who is who is that you be recognized for how good you really is Gun Runner who set some very fast initial fractions while being uchallenged by Collected and did not fold.

[richard burch]

The things I will remember was that it was a very good race.

Bob B. not being able to formulate the words in the post interview that Arrogate was never the same.

[Big Peps]

Call me crazy and just my opinion but I don't have any issue with owner's running their horses lightly, their call. If the trainer and owner feel it's best for the horse and increases their chances to win big races then so be it.

The bills never stop regardless, obviously with the help from trainer it's their call.

[asudevil]

Post BC Thoughts:

- Del Mar should be in the regular rotation
- Track played fair (not like SA super highway)
- Nice showing from NYRA group of runners
- Euro's adding lasix typically succeed
- Sprinters are better from CA
- Baffert's Del Mar stats, with stakes runners, is lackluster
- Change in IRS rules are terrific

[blackthroatedwind]

The track did not play fair. That's silly.

[asudevil]

Dead rail...but that can be said of several major tracks

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by asudevil

Dead rail...but that can be said of several major tracks

What does that mean?

You said the track was fair. It wasn't. The fact that several major tracks may or may not also have dead rails is as relevant as the cost of a Big Mac.

[asudevil]

OK...Debating it with you is fruitless. Usually these discussions make it easier to decipher those who had successful wagering and the others not so much.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by asudevil

OK...Debating it with you is fruitless. Usually these discussions make it easier to decipher those who had successful wagering and the others not so much.

HB.. Andy crushed, Talismanic & Good Magic in particular. The track was decidedly 'outside'. It's not worth discussing.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by asudevil

OK...Debating it with you is fruitless. Usually these discussions make it easier to decipher those who had successful wagering and the others not so much.

What's wrong with you? I pointed out something you said that was inaccurate. That's all. Now you make some ludicrous inference that I am disagreeing, by correcting something you know you were mistaken about, because I lost money....which you also know is incorrect.

Pathetic.

[blackthroatedwind]

Since you want to be a jerk...this is also untrue....

Euro's adding lasix typically succeed

Not only is this incorrect, the BC Turf winner was a Euro that did not use Lasix. Most Euros add Lasix....most also lose.

[10 pnt move up]

Del Mar played pretty much the same way it did this summer, outside was much better than inside, have no clue why this was a surprise to anyone.

[freddymo]

I have some thoughts:
1. Delmar did a nice job. One minor complaint they didnt allow people to move freely throughout the track. You had to stay on the level your seats were on. Seemed a bit over the top, made it hard to visit with friends.

2.Win lose or draw its a great opportunity to enjoy some great racing.

3. No problem getting on internet, for me, SPA & Belmont on big days is problematic. Perhaps 34000 people vs. 60000+ changes the equation?

4. There are some REALLY dumb short priced favorites.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by Kasept

HB.. Andy crushed, Talismanic & Good Magic in particular. The track was decidedly 'outside'. It's not worth discussing.

Why is it not worth discussing?

Race 2: winner was in the 2-path the entire race, runner-up was on the inside and only shifted out after getting into trouble on the turn when closing from the back

Juvenile Fillies: Outside flow was best here

FM Sprint: Winner went right up the rail on the turn before pulling out for clear run, third place was on the rail or inside paths the entire race

Sprint: Fairly run race, inside leader was already beaten at the start of the turn, horses in the two paths outside him completed the EX, nothing wider was ever going to challenge them

Juvenile: Euro who had never been on dirt or routing was the inside speed and expectedly faded. Runner-up was the path outside him and the winner took the runner up's cover. Third place and heavily bet fav was "decidely outside" the trip and it didn't help him.

Classic: Inside speed 1-2, horses deeper not a factor


The track played fair. Just because the rail was not golden or overbet faves faded off ridiculous opening quarters does not mean you needed to be outside; just the shape of those races meant closers were better suited, and we know that more often than not closers swoop wide rather than diving up the inside.

But you're right, it's better to discuss some of the bonehead rides we saw. Unique Bella, who's been the speed in only one of her sprints, going 21 4/5 44 1/5. Moonshine Memories, who rated so beautifully in her lone route, unnecessarily being gunned in a sub 23 quarter in a race without much speed on paper.

[Kasept]

I don't have time to discuss this right now, but will note that Bolt d'Oro being 6 wide on the first turn and 5 wide on the second has nothing to do with the benefits of being more outside than inside on that track Friday/Saturday. Similarly, saving ground early before rallying off the inside into the stretch is not an endorsement for the fairness of the track. Every winner except Gun Runner, enhancing his performance, went past leaders on their outside starting with Battle of Midway over Sharp Azteca and Forever Unbridled and Paradise Woods through the Juvenile winners and Sprint winners. But go ahead and talk yourself into how fair and even the track was.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't have time to discuss this right now, but will note that Bolt d'Oro being 6 wide on the first turn and 5 wide on the second has nothing to do with the benefits of being more outside than inside on that track Friday/Saturday. Similarly, saving ground early before rallying off the inside into the stretch is not an endorsement for the fairness of the track. Every winner except Gun Runner, enhancing his performance, went past leaders on their outside starting with Battle of Midway over Sharp Azteca and Forever Unbridled and Paradise Woods through the Juvenile winners and Sprint winners. But go ahead and talk yourself into how fair and even the track was.

Hoping Drefong takes a shot at the Cigar Mile, he had no shot with the setup and inside, maybe since they see him as a sprinter he is something like 2/1 in that race.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't have time to discuss this right now, but will note that Bolt d'Oro being 6 wide on the first turn and 5 wide on the second has nothing to do with the benefits of being more outside than inside on that track Friday/Saturday. Similarly, saving ground early before rallying off the inside into the stretch is not an endorsement for the fairness of the track. Every winner except Gun Runner, enhancing his performance, went past leaders on their outside starting with Battle of Midway over Sharp Azteca and Forever Unbridled and Paradise Woods through the Juvenile winners and Sprint winners. But go ahead and talk yourself into how fair and even the track was.

Why doesn't it matter if the horse saved ground and was on this supposed dead inside before angling out? They were running on the same paths as the leaders who faded. Or, is it only the stretch that played outside? Anyways, how many times in dirt races do we ever see horses get beat by a closer going to their inside? Very rarely, because seldomly do horses get a clear path up the inside so they always swing wide. Watch the head-ons and see just how wide and without cover some of these horses were on BC Day, because they didn't want to get stuck in traffic on the rail in the championship race. For example, with the move that she was making, I don't know how you could argue that Bar of Gold doesn't win that race even if she got a clear rail run and didn't have to switch wide.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Hoping Drefong takes a shot at the Cigar Mile, he had no shot with the setup and inside, maybe since they see him as a sprinter he is something like 2/1 in that race.

If you watch the overhead shot he tried to lug in again as the hit the gap with the main track. Think that's the reason he didn't fire to the front.