Conditions in NY

[jnunan4759]

I just wanted to see if anybody had a good handle on class of race conditions in NY. I must admit I'm lost. I don't know the difference between a 20000NW2L claimer and a 20000B claimer. Also the OCL and SCL races, it's confusing. Hopefully they're changing it back to something more understandable to the bettor, but does anybody have a handle on the classes ? Plus add in the NYB races and how do they figure ? As I said, I'm lost.

Any input is appreciated.

[jnunan4759]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I was asking about the condition book, not the weather.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by jnunan4759

I just wanted to see if anybody had a good handle on class of race conditions in NY. I must admit I'm lost. I don't know the difference between a 20000NW2L claimer and a 20000B claimer. Also the OCL and SCL races, it's confusing. Hopefully they're changing it back to something more understandable to the bettor, but does anybody have a handle on the classes ? Plus add in the NYB races and how do they figure ? As I said, I'm lost.

Any input is appreciated.

Well, I can tell you the difference between a non winners and a beaten claimer event. Non winners is straight forward. The horse has not won 2 races in a NW2L. The beaten claimer race should be a stronger race. The conditions will say something like 3 years old and older non winners of 2 lifetime or 3 year old. This means there is no limit to how many wins a 3yo has but horses 4 and up are limited just like the NW2L. Generally the horses to look for first in such conditions then are the 3 yo with more than one win, then to a 3yo or a 4yo with a very small number of starts.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Well, I can tell you the difference between a non winners and a beaten claimer event. Non winners is straight forward. The horse has not won 2 races in a NW2L. The beaten claimer race should be a stronger race. The conditions will say something like 3 years old and older non winners of 2 lifetime or 3 year old. This means there is no limit to how many wins a 3yo has but horses 4 and up are limited just like the NW2L. Generally the horses to look for first in such conditions then are the 3 yo with more than one win, then to a 3yo or a 4yo with a very small number of starts.

And to add to that occasionally an open beaten claiming event won't have a condition (NW{x}L), but will allot a significant weight break to 3yos.

Optional Claiming is fairly straight forward; (1) you either meet the conditions or enter for the tag, or (2) opt to save the condition by entering for a tag.

I don't generally follow NY racing, but a Starter Claiming event sounds like an oxymoron. I can only guess it is an OC with an additional stipulation that you have to have started for a specified price to enter.

NY Breds get an additional allowance condition IN NY - I don't recall the exact formula, but I think that you have to win an Open Company N1X, then you are still eligible for state restricted N1X....Or it could be the other way around...Parsixfarms would be the go to guy for the details

[parsixfarms]

Since Martin Panza has taken over as the head of racing at NYRA, there has been a general steam-lining/simplification of the condition book. As compared to the prior racing secretary, NW2L races are straight "never won two races lifetime." Previously, NYRA had the "B" races - which meant that there was more than one way to meet the condition. You now see these a great deal at Gulfstream, where a $20,000B race might be for "horses that have never won two races lifetime OR 3yo OR horses that have not own a race in six months." Unless you have access to Formulator, look up the charts or knowledge of the horses in the race, the multiple conditions that cause the "B" condition are not spelled out, causing confusion.

You asked about starter/optional claiming races. New York has used these a bit recently because the racing office has had difficulty getting the starter $50,000 NW2L to go for 2YOs or newly-turned 3YOs. The conditions might now read, in words or effect, that the race is for horses that have started for a certain claiming price and never won a race other than maiden or claiming, or optional claiming price of $50,000. It is a much tougher race than the starter $50,000 NW2L.

Regarding New York breds, there are two restricted allowance conditions that horses can compete in (the NW2X often being an optional claiming $40,000). The "open" allowance races in New York are for "horses that have never won a race other than maiden, claiming, starter or restricted or never won two lifetime." Any state-bred allowance race falls under the "restricted" language in the condition; I'm not certain but a state-bred stakes race would not be excluded under the "restricted" language (the interpretation of how restricted stakes are treated differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction).

I hope this helpful.

[jnunan4759]

These replies were very informative and thanks to all. Conditions are sometimes almost hopelessly complex and are a delicate balancing act between racing secretary and trainers. Jim Quinn wrote a good book "The Handicapper's Condition Book" which I've read several times and still have difficulty understanding.

I've met many handicappers who have little or no knowledge of conditions other that the rudimentary. I also know owners and trainers, myself included, that don't understand them well.

I remember in the past it was much simpler. There were maidens, allowance, stakes and claimers. You could easily determine whether a horse was going up-in-class or down-in-class. Today, it's not so clear.