claimers go 108. at gulf race 5 today

hoovesupsideyourhead · #1 02-23-2014, 01:45 PM

lol the track was very fair...foy day..

#2 02-23-2014, 01:54 PM

yikes!

pointman · #3 02-23-2014, 01:56 PM

It seems to me that regardless of whether they are on turf or dirt at GP right now that if you are in the back of the pack you have zero shot to win with the way the track is playing.

randallscott35 · #4 02-23-2014, 02:02 PM

Butch working there today? Still envision some of the breakdowns from Derby Day '01 before the 2nd fastest Derby clocking in history. Good work boys.

RockHardTen1985 · #5 02-23-2014, 04:03 PM

It was 109 and it was a 50k allowance,but who cares about facts around here?

cakes44 · #6 02-23-2014, 06:54 PM

Seems fair to question the surface if track records are being broken every weekend and barely receiving 100 BSFs.

cakes44 · #7 02-23-2014, 07:05 PM

And is that another error in their joke timing system, or did fillies seriously go 20.28 for the 1st quarter in the turf sprint today?

Cannon Shell · #8 02-23-2014, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Butch working there today? Still envision some of the breakdowns from Derby Day '01 before the 2nd fastest Derby clocking in history. Good work boys.

One horse broke down that day and the track shouldnt be blamed for that one

But as the great PG1985 said, who cares about facts around here

RockHardTen1985 · #9 02-23-2014, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

One horse broke down that day and the track shouldnt be blamed for that one

But as the great PG1985 said, who cares about facts around here

The thread is titled claimers go 108. It was 109 and it was an allowance, just saying....

randallscott35 · #10 02-23-2014, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

One horse broke down that day and the track shouldnt be blamed for that one

But as the great PG1985 said, who cares about facts around here

Are you serious? Do you know how many long term injuries came out of that day. It isn't simply breaking down. Look at those Derby horses. A bunch were finished after that day. What 2 more for Monarchos. A few more for Point Given. Songandaprayer never the same etc etc. The track was a freaking joke. Can't believe for a second you would look the other way at that as a trainer. Disappointed in you.

randallscott35 · #11 02-23-2014, 07:23 PM

There were other breakdowns that week by the way.

Cannon Shell · #12 02-23-2014, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Are you serious? Do you know how many long term injuries came out of that day. It isn't simply breaking down. Look at those Derby horses. A bunch were finished after that day. What 2 more for Monarchos. A few more for Point Given. Songandaprayer never the same etc etc. The track was a freaking joke. Can't believe for a second you would look the other way at that as a trainer. Disappointed in you.

So you have determined that the track condition that day caused the shortening of various horses careers? Based on what evidence? That Derby horses crashed post race? Yeah that doesnt happen every year. Point Given really seemed affected when he galloped in the Preakness 2 weeks later. Or the Belmont after that. Or the Haskell after that. Or the Travers after that.

Balto Star only managed 26 more career starts.
Congaree was so affected he only wound up with 20 more starts
Keats only had 12 more starts over the next 2 years

I ran one that day right after the Derby. He was so shook up he only made 34 more lifetime starts.

randallscott35 · #13 02-23-2014, 07:46 PM

The track all but apologized for the track that day and it hasn't happened again to that degree since. It was obvious they thought Point Given could approach Secretariat's time and figured idiot fans would simply look at the time and not appreciate the paved highway that existed...Sure some horses ran again after it. But let's not have revisionist history here. They took a ton of heat and somehow that type of track hasn't occurred since. What a shock.

Cannon Shell · #14 02-23-2014, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

There were other breakdowns that week by the way.

Yeah Cecil Borel had one pull up on Tuesday.

Wed, Thursday, and Friday had none.

Cannon Shell · #15 02-23-2014, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

The track all but apologized for the track that day and it hasn't happened again to that degree since. It was obvious they thought Point Given could approach Secretariat's time and figured idiot fans would simply look at the time and not appreciate the paved highway that existed...Sure some horses ran again after it. But let's not have revisionist history here. They took a ton of heat and somehow that type of track hasn't occurred since. What a shock.

The track on Derby day hasnt been really fast since 2001?

randallscott35 · #16 02-23-2014, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah Cecil Borel had one pull up on Tuesday.

Wed, Thursday, and Friday had none.

In the morning too? That's not what I remember....but we are talking 15 years ago. Maybe you have CDI stock. God bless if you want to defend the indefensible.

Cannon Shell · #17 02-23-2014, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

In the morning too? That's not what I remember....but we are talking 15 years ago. Maybe you have CDI stock. God bless if you want to defend the indefensible.

I'm not defending anything. Just pointing out the inaccuracies in your story.

Let's just say that I'm sure that my experience training over the CD surface for a number of years including those in question give me a pretty comfortable grasp on the topic.

Churchill's track surface was damn good to train and race over.

randallscott35 · #18 02-23-2014, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm not defending anything. Just pointing out the inaccuracies in your story.

Let's just say that I'm sure that my experience training over the CD surface for a number of years including those in question give me a pretty comfortable grasp on the topic.

Churchill's track surface was damn good to train and race over.

Right. How many track records that Saturday. 3, 4? More. Weren't like 3 yr old fillies setting track records...I wasn't questioning the surface the rest of your training career, that isn't the point. I'm glad they have never done it again, which shows they sure as hell did it that week.

Cannon Shell · #19 02-23-2014, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Right. How many track records that Saturday. 3, 4? More. Weren't like 3 yr old fillies setting track records...I wasn't questioning the surface the rest of your training career, that isn't the point. I'm glad they have never done it again, which shows they sure as hell did it that week.

Fast doesnt mean unsafe. Slow doesnt mean safe.

The point is that you made a statement that the track being extremely fast that day was detrimental to the horses health that ran over it that day which just isnt true.

I'd take that days track surface over what Monmouth had this past Haskell day anytime.

randallscott35 · #20 02-23-2014, 08:33 PM

Just a fluke I guess. If pavement is safe, then that is what we should race on Chuck. In the meantime, I've wasted far too much of my evening on this conversation.

"Someone with Churchill Downs management should have a serious sit-down with track superintendent Butch Lehr. I'll take Lehr at his word that nothing was done to purposely speed up the track for Derby Day, but the rapid times of the races were, in a word, ridiculous."

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