The degeneration of the sport over the last 15 years

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Look at RA's 4-year-old season ... Look at Zenyatta's entire career save one home court test against Gio Ponti and company.

Look at what happens when you have a tough, sound, elite horse and you're not deathly affraid of losing ...




That's 38 starts in 29 months at 11 different tracks - the last 35 starts in Graded Stakes company. Took on top males repeatedly... back when top males didn't suck horribly.

[rgustafson]

Agree with you 100%, but it's just too bad Lukas doesn't have something top notch or we might see it again. Not a filly or mare of course, but maybe he can crank up Mine That Bird.

[RolloTomasi]

Could you imagine Zenyatta starting the year off winning the Santa Monica and the Santa Maria, then skipping the Santa Margarita to run in the Big Cap instead?

It's also funny to note that in Serena's Song's 4yo year up to August, she basically ran in all the same races that both Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra have run in so far this year combined.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Look at RA's 4-year-old season ... Look at Zenyatta's entire career save one home court test against Gio Ponti and company.

Look at what happens when you have a tough, sound, elite horse and you're not deathly affraid of losing ...




That's 38 starts in 29 months at 11 different tracks - the last 35 starts in Graded Stakes company. Took on top males repeatedly... back when top males didn't suck horribly.

This is why I begged for you to come back... This is perfect!

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Could you imagine Zenyatta starting the year off winning the Santa Monica and the Santa Maria, then skipping the Santa Margarita to run in the Big Cap instead?

It's also funny to note that in Serena's Song's 4yo year up to August, she basically ran in all the same races that both Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra have run in so far this year combined.

this was my point last week, the racing population at the higher end is just not thinner to less owners, its been cut in half or so by the stupid friggen sheets bull shi and probably the amount of time it takes to recover from the drugs that they take.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by HomerS

First of all I loved Serenas Song. One of my all time favorites. Danced in every dance have nothing but good memories.

But if anything that shows degeneration of the fan.

Because look at all those losses especially in that last year.

If you lose one race now you are overrated. Two races a hopeless bum. Hell you dont even have to lose as we have seen.

Where exactly is the proof of this? It's the goddamn owners who are so deathly afraid of losing. Real fans don't care if a horse loses a few races as long as they're taking on top competition.

[joeydb]

Good one drugs.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Proof is on the forums. Proof? Its everywhere. Look for any thread with the name Zenyetta in it.

I said real fans. Not internet lunatics who have giant axes to grind against either Rachel Alexandra or Zenyatta.

Originally Posted by HomerS

But the connections of both have shown they are not like the others. Besides the most obvious point (both are running when easily could have been retired already) were their no other spots for Rachel last year then the races she ran? Are you honestly going to say her races last year were easy? As far as Zenyetta there was no easier spot then the Classic?

Its the fault of these connections that there is a dearth of quality horses anymore?

Rachel's campaign last year was extraordinary. Zenyatta's was lame except for one race in her backyard. Both campaigns this year have been lame. So one exciting season out of four, and now Moss and Jackson are suddenly Butch Cassidy and John effing Wayne? Dearth of quality horses? THERE'S A QUALITY HORSE DOWN THE SHEDROW FROM ZENYATTA THAT THEY WON'T GO AFTER. Face Rail Trip. Face Quality Road. Face each other. Do something, but don't run in cupcake ungraded fabricated stakes or stakes you've won three years in a goddamn row.

Originally Posted by Homers

God forbid one of these horses breaks down. Will hear the why didnt they retiire the horse, coudlnt they have found an easier spot, the heartless butchers.

This is pure conjecture. PETA members might say this, DT members are smarter than that and you know it.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I said real fans. Not internet lunatics who have giant axes to grind against either Rachel Alexandra or Zenyatta.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Smarty Jones lost one race and then all the nonsense about him was written.

I understand your overall point, but with regards to Smarty, I think most of the "nonsense" was written before the Belmont....by his fans.

[miraja2]

One of the (many) things that stands out after looking at Serena's Song's PPs is that at age 2 and 4 she actually ran in races after the Breeder's Cup. The connections treated the BC as I think it should be treated. The BC is a big set of races that a good horse's connections should make an effort to attend if practical, but it should NOT be treated as horse racing's equivalent of the World Series where the completion of the event means the sport goes away for the next 4 or 5 months.

I sure wish more horses of her caliber were running in graded stakes races in November and December (and January & February for that matter) these days.

[Revidere]

I get it. The trainer everyone was crucifying in the 90's for running his horses into the ground is now the example to emulate.

Hmmmm.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by HomerS

If you lose one race now you are overrated. Two races a hopeless bum. Hell you dont even have to lose as we have seen.

thats only after people declare you the second coming of ruffian......and the connections don't help either. theres so much purse money and more tracks than good horses. plus, the breed has DEFINETELY weakened. the distances, the frequency of racing time and the length of career have all gone downhill. its hard to argue that if changes are not made things will continue to lag

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Revidere

I get it. The trainer everyone was crucifying in the 90's for running his horses into the ground is now the example to emulate.

Hmmmm.

The thing is, though, and I know you're aware of it, is that DrugS could have just as easily posted the PPs of Cigar, Skip Away, or a slew of others and had the same effect. DWL may be a bit more "controversial" trainer to include but the point is the same, the horsemen nowadays are not the same.

NT

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The thing is, though, and I know you're aware of it, is that DrugS could have just as easily posted the PPs of Cigar, Skip Away, or a slew of others and had the same effect. DWL may be a bit more "controversial" trainer to include but the point is the same, the horsemen nowadays are not the same.

NT

Absolutely.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Revidere

I get it. The trainer everyone was crucifying in the 90's for running his horses into the ground is now the example to emulate.

Hmmmm.

That's a fair point. 38 starts in 29 months is a bit extreme, and Lukas is not exactly the ideal trainer in my book.

However, I thinking looking at Serena's Song's performances demonstrate that at least some G1-caliber horses can handle an aggressive campaign, and perhaps not every quality runner needs to run less than 5-8 times a year.

[Travis Stone]

Serena's Song raced a lot, shipped a lot, tried a lot and won a lot. If only a few more horsemen were willing to do the things Lukas did.

[Thunder Gulch]

This is the leader in the clubhouse for "Thread of the Year". A lot of great points being made all over.

I believe the drugs, the thoro-patterns, and the egotistical owners all have a prominent part in turning a racing season into a carefully orchestrated attempt at picking soft spots for what should be the best horses in training. This isn't the 40's we're comparing here, we are talking about 15 years ago.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Serena's Song raced a lot, shipped a lot, tried a lot and won a lot. If only a few more horsemen were willing to do the things Lukas did.

It was a lot of fun when he had a great horse who could stand up to his training.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

This is why I begged for you to come back... This is perfect!

I thought it was because you're trying to bang him.