Silver Train

Dutrow, who recently returned from a trip to Paris, was on hand Monday morning to oversee workouts for his stakes stars Silver Train and Rebel Rebel.

Silver Train, pointing to the Grade 1 Forego on Sept. 2, worked five furlongs in 1:00.07, and Rebel Rebel, who is likely to run next in the Woodbine Mile, worked six furlongs in 1:14.04 in company with Congo King.

Of Silver Train, Dutrow said, "He's doing great, he's on his game. I really like what's happening with that horse."

Schedule changes for Travers Week

This was posted on DRF.......

There is no way Dutrow runs him at Saratoga.......right? Not with Belmont right around the corner?!?!!?

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by deltaforce97

This was posted on DRF.......

There is no way Dutrow runs him at Saratoga.......right? Not with Belmont right around the corner?!?!!?

as far as I had heard, they were waiting for the Vosburgh at Belmont. I'd be surprised if he ran at Saratoga too.

[Slewstoo]

Latest news on Silver Train

-------

Silver Train might skip Breeders' Cup Sprint

While leaving the door open for a change of plans, trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. said he currently has no intention of trying for a repeat in the TVG Breeders' Cup Sprint (G1) with Silver Train.

Dutrow's objectives for the four-year-old Old Trieste colt are the Vosburgh Stakes (G1) on October 7 at Belmont Park and the Hill 'n' Dale Cigar Mile Handicap (G1) on November 25 at Aqueduct.

Silver Train is undefeated in his last five starts at Belmont, including a head victory over Taste of Paradise in the 2005 Sprint and wins this year in the Metropolitan (G1) and Tom Fool (G2) Handicaps.

Dutrow said he thinks Silver Train would be out of his element in this year's Sprint at Churchill Downs on November 4.

"I'm not interested in that race at all for Silver Train," Dutrow said on Monday. "I'm not even thinking about it. It's not even in my vocabulary. His game is Belmont Park, and I don't want to take him out of his game. To take him to another track going [six furlongs], which I know is not his game anyway, I don't see it working out."

Dutrow said he would be comfortable running Silver Train in the Cigar Mile at Aqueduct, his home track and where he finished second in a six-furlong optional-claiming race on April 20 in a prep for the Met Mile.

"I know that he likes the outer track [at Aqueduct], so I would take a chance on [the Cigar Mile]," said Dutrow, who trains Silver Train for Kassem Masri's Four Roses Thoroughbreds. "But ultimately, it's the owner's call. If he really wants to go to the Breeders' Cup, I won't put up a fight. He will know what's on my mind, but I'm easy to deal with."

Silver Train received some down time after his win in the Tom Fool by a neck over War Front.

"He's as happy as he can be, living life like Riley," Dutrow said. "He got a little R and R, just jogging, and he loves it. He's in total control of things right now."

Silver Wagon will represent Dutrow and Four Roses in the Forego Stakes (G1) on September 2 at Saratoga. The 2003 Hopeful Stakes (G1) winner worked five furlongs in 1:00.07 on Monday at Saratoga.

Dutrow might also start Grade 3 winner Kazoo in the Forego.


-----

Kinda lame, but at least they admit he's not that effective elsewhere.

Why is it lame? I knew this a while ago when we talked about a lotta things over dinner. I asked him the same questions that were answered here and he was adamant that he didn't wanna go and run at CD in the sprint.

"Lame" is doing something you think might jeopardize the horses health or value. There is always added pressure when you train a horse who has already had his breeding rights purchased. Guys, its not lame if you think its a bad thing for your horse. Its called prudence.

Guys whenever a horses' breeding rights are purchased while he is still running and active, there are always heavy incentives based on the horses performance. The reason for this is that the more he accomplishes the higher the farm buying him can stand him at stud. For example(And I do NOT KNOW THIS AS A FACT!), A typical industry standard for a stud deal like this will usually call for the following bonuses to be paid to the seller in addition to the money up front:
Each additional grade one win equals one million
Being champion is another one million
Being HOY is another one million.

So what it means is this(as a very educated guess, the money could be more or less), if he wins either of the two grade one wins hes talking about it probably means a million extra for either or each win. If he wins those and manages to get champion sprinter its an additional 1 million.
Those incentives equal more cash than the BC sprint is worth, lots more. And money is what makes the game go round. Trainer usually gets a 5% commission based up on the final purchase price with incentives added. Trainer also usually gets two breedings per year on the horse which he can use or sell. Dutrow's job and responsibility to his client is to make him worth as much money as possible at stud and the final purcahse price as high as it can be. Its also his responsibility to himself to make himself as much money as possible.
Criticizing this move would be like criticizing Lava Man's owners or trainer for not leaving California this year. I applaud the management job they have done like no other I have seen in a very long time. Lava Man is a gelding so being champion or HOY is of no consequence other than a free dinner and a statue. The deal for him is to run agaisnt the softest competition they can find in the most expensive races they can find at tracks he loves. I'm fair in my judgement of everyone and consistent. You won't find a single post from me about Lava Man's folks being afriad to ship east. WHy should they until the BCC which means so much money? Whats the point exactly? he can't go to stud no matter what he accomplishes.
Dutrow and Four Roses want the most valuable stallion deal that they can possibly have and the most money that they can get. I'm sure they also kept a piece of him in the stud deal and what he stands for means a lot to them as well. The biggest job a trainer has is to do the best he can for his owners not only in regard to how much money they can win, but to make them worth as much as possible on the back end. If Dutrow thinks its a bad move to run him on a track and at a distance he doesnt think suits him, then he is being responsible to his owners, the horse, and to himself.

Silver Train is the Lava Man of the east coast. In fact, he is worse than Lava Man. At least Lava Man can win on different surfaces and at different tracks in Cali. SIlver Train can only win on the dirt at Belmont. Good Belmont sprinter is all. Nothing really to get excited about. But kudos to Dutrow for knowing his horse sucks everywhere else but Belmont.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Silver Train is the Lava Man of the east coast. In fact, he is worse than Lava Man. At least Lava Man can win on different surfaces and at different tracks in Cali. SIlver Train can only win on the dirt at Belmont. Good Belmont sprinter is all. Nothing really to get excited about. But kudos to Dutrow for knowing his horse sucks everywhere else but Belmont.

He broke his maiden by many lengths at Saratoga. And I applaud both he and O Neill for knowing the strengths and weaknesses of their animals.

[Slewstoo]

You make some good points about Silver Train oracle, but do you think he would deserve champion sprinter this year if he wins out but doesn't compete in the BC Sprint?

Currently, he's at the top of most of the sprinter polls that I've seen, but I would have a really hard time awarding him the title if he doesn't run in the BC. Just my opinion though.

Originally Posted by Slewstoo

You make some good points about Silver Train oracle, but do you think he would deserve champion sprinter this year if he wins out but doesn't compete in the BC Sprint?

Currently, he's at the top of most of the sprinter polls that I've seen, but I would have a really hard time awarding him the title if he doesn't run in the BC. Just my opinion though.

Well I think if someone wins the BC sprint who has the credentials upon other accomplishments this year that they should win it. The BC has become the defining way to crown a champion. But if someone wins it who hasnt done much else I think that it should go to the horse who has accomplished the most this year. Silver Train hasn't done enough yet to merit champion status. He'd have to win the Vosburgh and the Cigar Mile first.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Slewstoo

You make some good points about Silver Train oracle, but do you think he would deserve champion sprinter this year if he wins out but doesn't compete in the BC Sprint?

Currently, he's at the top of most of the sprinter polls that I've seen, but I would have a really hard time awarding him the title if he doesn't run in the BC. Just my opinion though.

It kinda depends whether you consider a mile a sprint race or not. Some people do and some don't. If he has wins in the Met Mile and Cigar Mile that you count towards the Sprint Division then he'd be tough to deny the Sprint Award, especially if he beat the eventual BC Sprint winner in the Vosburgh. If you ignore the mile races then he doesn't stand a chance as his only sprint win would be the Vosburgh.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It kinda depends whether you consider a mile a sprint race or not. Some people do and some don't. If he has wins in the Met Mile and Cigar Mile that you count towards the Sprint Division then he'd be tough to deny the Sprint Award, especially if he beat the eventual BC Sprint winner in the Vosburgh. If you ignore the mile races then he doesn't stand a chance as his only sprint win would be the Vosburgh.

Agreed Sniper, I don't think anyone thinks that anything less than a sweep of the Vosburgh and Cigar Mile would get him champ. But the Lava Man argument as far as where he races doesnt quite apply here. Most of the big sprints are in either Cali or NY. Its not like the handicap division where they run big ones one both coasts and in Dubai, and at the Cup(wherever it is), and in Florida(Donn) and in Ky(Foster) and in Maryland(Pim Special). Most of the past sprint champs were based on one Coast and ran there until the BC. Foggy was an exception shipping everywhere possible all year long.

[dalakhani]

I love what Dutrow says here. I love the fact that he isnt making up some mysterious injury or some other excuse to duck. He is basically being honest about the horse's strengths and weaknesses and doing right by the horse. By the end of the year, according to his proposed schedule, Silver train will have run 6-7 times. Not too shabby for this day and age.

Kudos to Dutrow for being a stand up guy.

Silver Train 2006 won: 2 lost: 2

DRF Past performances - Silver Train - Bordonaro - Surf Cat - Henny Hughes
http://www.drf.com/row/watch_pps/sp.pdf

Originally Posted by oracle80

Agreed Sniper, I don't think anyone thinks that anything less than a sweep of the Vosburgh and Cigar Mile would get him champ. But the Lava Man argument as far as where he races doesnt quite apply here. Most of the big sprints are in either Cali or NY. Its not like the handicap division where they run big ones one both coasts and in Dubai, and at the Cup(wherever it is), and in Florida(Donn) and in Ky(Foster) and in Maryland(Pim Special). Most of the past sprint champs were based on one Coast and ran there until the BC. Foggy was an exception shipping everywhere possible all year long.

He won a maiden race at Saratoga--big deal. The fact remains that the horse cant win anywhere other than Belmont. Where was he in the Vanderbilt? Dutrow is smart and he is keeping his horse at Belmont. The horse will not win an eclipse unless he wins the BC Sprint. Silver Train and Lava Man are the same horse. But Lava Man can win on turf and at different tracks.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by oracle80

He broke his maiden by many lengths at Saratoga. And I applaud both he and O Neill for knowing the strengths and weaknesses of their animals.

Their "strength" might just be in the medications both those guys use.

[Damascus '67]

Originally Posted by JJP

Their "strength" might just be in the medications both those guys use.

Silver Train wins at Belmont..Detention barn..How medicated can he be?

Originally Posted by JJP

Their "strength" might just be in the medications both those guys use.

Really? The explain why St Liam won at: Aqueduct, Belmont, CD, Gulfstream.
Dutrows percentage is high at every venue he runs at, every damn one. Almost the same percentage across the board. Hes won at high % at CD(where he had a division this past spring), Gulfstream, Monmouth(where he has a division) NYRA tracks, and he shipped Offlee Wild to Suffolk to win the Mass Cap and Dutrow has won big races in Maryland(the General George AND the Barbara Fritchie), Pennsylvania (the PA derby), etc,
The argument that hes getting away with cheating in one specific jurisdiction is nonsense and holds absolutely no water whatsoever.
So genius you think hes fooling all these jurisdictions?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Really? The explain why St Liam won at: Aqueduct, Belmont, CD, Gulfstream.
Dutrows percentage is high at every venue he runs at, every damn one. Almost the same percentage across the board. Hes won at high % at CD(where he had a division this past spring), Gulfstream, Monmouth(where he has a division) NYRA tracks, and he shipped Offlee Wild to Suffolk to win the Mass Cap and Dutrow has won big races in Maryland(the General George AND the Barbara Fritchie), Pennsylvania (the PA derby), etc,
The argument that hes getting away with cheating in one specific jurisdiction is nonsense and holds absolutely no water whatsoever.
So genius you think hes fooling all these jurisdictions?

Yeah I am kind of tired about hearing that certain trainers drug and blah blah blah. Dutrow wins with his horses being in a detention barn.

Everything that's been said here about Silver Train and Lava Man is basically correct ... especially by Mike, as always ... and ...

... that's what distinguishes the truly great horses from the just-very-good ones ...

... they don't need to take their track with them ... they can run most any distance ... over most any type of track condition ... and still crush whoever has the courage to get into the gate with them.

Silver Train and Lava Man are top quality professional race horses ... but they don't scare anyone.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Everything that's been said here about Silver Train and Lava Man is basically correct ... especially by Mike, as always ... and ...

... that's what distinguishes the truly great horses from the just-very-good ones ...

... they don't need to take their track with them ... they can run most any distance ... over most any type of track condition ... and still crush whoever has the courage to get into the gate with them.

Silver Train and Lava Man are top quality professional race horses ... but they don't scare anyone.

Where did anyone call Silver Train and Lava Man TRULY GREAT?

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Everything that's been said here about Silver Train and Lava Man is basically correct ... especially by Mike, as always ... and ...

... that's what distinguishes the truly great horses from the just-very-good ones ...

... they don't need to take their track with them ... they can run most any distance ... over most any type of track condition ... and still crush whoever has the courage to get into the gate with them.

Silver Train and Lava Man are top quality professional race horses ... but they don't scare anyone.

I agree, they are both great horses in their specified settings. Like Rock hard ten. But horses who win all over the place always get more respect. And horses who travel all over are bound to run into at least one surface(maybe two) that they can't handle.
I mean look at Bernadini, Gulf, Belmont, Pim, Saratoga. Enough said.
St Liam won at Bel, Gulf, Aqueduct, CD. Invasor has won in Uruguay, Pim, Bel, Spa. Horses like that always get first billing over specialists within certain venues. I think thats just common sense.