Who is the 2nd worst Champion Older Male in the last 20 years?

The Indomitable DrugS · #1 02-21-2010, 03:21 PM

Obviously, Gio Ponti is by far the worst.

It will be interesting to see who gets the nod between Lawyer Ron, The Wicked North, and Plesant Tap.

The Indomitable DrugS · #2 02-21-2010, 04:07 PM

Even though Pleasant Tap was a likeable, honest, cool horse .. I'd probably give him the nod for 2nd worst.

What's most cool about him is that he was 2nd in both the Breeders Cup Sprint and Breeders Cup Classic - and never once went favored at a route distance the year he won champion older male.

randallscott35 · #3 02-21-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Even though Pleasant Tap was a likeable, honest, cool horse .. I'd probably give him the nod for 2nd worst.

What's most cool about him is that he was 2nd in both the Breeders Cup Sprint and Breeders Cup Classic - and never once went favored at a route distance the year he won champion older male.

From Eddie D to Gary Stevens. Nice pickup mount for the actor.

Smooth Operator · #4 02-21-2010, 04:55 PM

Curlin...

SOREHOOF · #5 02-21-2010, 05:25 PM

OOps.

SOREHOOF · #6 02-21-2010, 05:27 PM

There must have been worse than that.

robfla · #7 02-21-2010, 05:31 PM

Kotashaan

The Indomitable DrugS · #8 02-21-2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

There must have been worse than that.

Not really ... until last year ... the collection of Champion older male winners have been dynamite going back as far as I can remember.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...der_Male_Horse

It's almost amusing to think that a horse like Gio Ponti .. who has never even raced on dirt before,and has been beaten in each of his last 2 synthetic tries, and each of his last two turf tries is among them.

People are right when they say Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta are great. Without a doubt they are ... but the pathetic collection of quality older males around last year is what made them look like the two greatest female horses of all-time to many people.

The Indomitable DrugS · #9 02-21-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robfla

Kotashaan

I believe he won Horse of the Year but lost champion older male to Bertrando.

ateamstupid · #10 02-21-2010, 05:40 PM

Pleasant Tap's figures are pretty comparable to Curlin's.

The Indomitable DrugS · #11 02-21-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Pleasant Tap's figures are pretty comparable to Curlin's.

Curlin's big race at four came in Dubai ... but yeah, he was an overrated but obviously derserving champion at age 4.

The Indomitable DrugS · #12 02-21-2010, 05:45 PM

Pleasant Tap's best day ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWp2Iftj9iA

ateamstupid · #13 02-21-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Curlin's big race at four came in Dubai ... but yeah, he was an overrated but obviously derserving champion at age 4.

I guess the question is what we're basing this on, figures or accomplishments. Obviously Curlin accomplished more than Pleasant Tap, but he wasn't much faster, if at all. Do you have access to The Wicked North's PP's? Because he had a way crappier year than Pleasant Tap by stakes results.

MISTERGEE · #14 02-21-2010, 05:50 PM

cant be pleasant tap, go with lawyer ron, left bank, the wicked north

VOL JACK · #15 02-21-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Curlin...

Considering how Monmouth played in Route races Breeder's Cup weekend in 2007.
Curlins BCC was one of the best performances of the latter half of the last decade.

ateamstupid · #16 02-21-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Considering how Monmouth played in Route races Breeder's Cup weekend in 2007.
Curlins BCC was one of the best performances of the latter half of the last decade.

That was when he was 3. We're talking about older male seasons.

Indian Charlie · #17 02-21-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robfla

Kotashaan

1. He was champion turf horse and HOY, not champion older horse.
2. He was one of the best turf horses of the last 30 years, period.

The Indomitable DrugS · #18 02-21-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I guess the question is what we're basing this on, figures or accomplishments. Obviously Curlin accomplished more than Pleasant Tap, but he wasn't much faster, if at all. Do you have access to The Wicked North's PP's? Because he had a way crappier year than Pleasant Tap by stakes results.

A combonation of all factors.

I'd give TWN a razor thin edge over Plesant Tap because TWN was an excellent sprinter, distance horse, and had a good turf race his only try on firm turf. Those California speed types often over performed when they'd go East but he never did.

In his Bing Crosby win he battled for the lead the whole way and beat defending BC Sprint champion Thirty Slews. He also was 2nd to defending BC Sprint winner Cardmania in the San Carlos.

ateamstupid · #19 02-21-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

A combonation of all factors.

I'd give TWN a razor thin edge over Plesant Tap because TWN was an excellent sprinter, distance horse, and had a good turf race his only try on firm turf. Those California speed types often over performed when they'd go East but he never did.

In his Bing Crosby win he battled for the lead the whole way and beat defending BC Sprint champion Thirty Slews. He also was 2nd to defending BC Sprint winner Cardmania in the San Carlos.

Like I said to VJ, I thought we were only discussing their champion seasons. If that's the case, Pleasant Tap had a better sprint year than TWN too. He also had a way more rigorous campaign, ran in the BCC and was never out of the exacta, while TWN finished his year out of the trifecta in the HOL Gold Cup.

johnny pinwheel · #20 02-21-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Not really ... until last year ... the collection of Champion older male winners have been dynamite going back as far as I can remember.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...der_Male_Horse

It's almost amusing to think that a horse like Gio Ponti .. who has never even raced on dirt before,and has been beaten in each of his last 2 synthetic tries, and each of his last two turf tries is among them.

People are right when they say Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta are great. Without a doubt they are ... but the pathetic collection of quality older males around last year is what made them look like the two greatest female horses of all-time to many people.

that is for sure, one beat macho again and the other beat a grass horse and a bunch of dirt horses that didn't belong on the surface. the hoopla and big race is alot of hype but the sport needs it. the two horses are part benefactors of older horse "apathy". thats how gio ponte won it........what could they say ,"none of the above"????