Notional and OverExtended

[eajinabi]

Both horses transfered From Doug O'Neil to Mark Henning and both wins in very impressive performances. They each are coming off of very dull races.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Both horses transfered From Doug O'Neil to Mark Henning and both wins in very impressive performances. They each are coming off of very dull races.

I was just about to post the exact same thing. Both of those horses had been running terrible for O'Neil. They switch to Hennig's barn and both win impressively. That does not make O'Neil look very good.

Doug O'Neil is one of those big steroid guys. He is one of those "throw the kitchen sink at the horse" type of guys. That doesn't work on all horses. There are some horses that will actually run better when you get the steroids and all the crap out of their systems.

[10 pnt move up]

man, those two bums winning...what is hennig giving those horses.

[ateamstupid]

Yeah, who would've thought that Overextended would've been able to win a statebred N1X after running against open company, graded company and running out of condition?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, who would've thought that Overextended would've been able to win a statebred N1X after running against open company, graded company and running out of condition?

That is true that his win today was in a state bred race. But still, he had been running dead-last in nwx1 in California as of late. The state bred races are certainly much weaker, but you still wouldn't expect that a horse who was running dead-last in an open nwx1, would win a state-bred nwx1.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, who would've thought that Overextended would've been able to win a statebred N1X after running against open company, graded company and running out of condition?

stake company in california is highly overrated.

[eajinabi]

They did not win but they won like monsters.

Overextended flew in the last furlong and Notional rallied off the pace on Monmouth's track which does not favour closers that much.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

stake company in california is highly overrated.

He hadn't run in a stakes race since December. As of late, he had been getting crushed in nwx1 races in California.

With regard to your comment about stakes company in California, over the last 15 years or so I think that California horses have fared much better when they have shipped to NY, than NY horses have done when they ship to California.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

He hadn't run in a stakes race since December. As of late, he had been getting crushed in nwx1 races in California.

With regard to your comment about stakes company in California, over the last 15 years or so I think that California horses have fared much better when they have shipped to NY, than NY horses have done when they ship to California.

good horses rarely ship from New York. There usually are some good horses, like a Zenyatta, but the races at the stake level have zero depth, and look NY has the advantage of shippers from all over the country.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That is true that his win today was in a state bred race. But still, he had been running dead-last in nwx1 in California as of late. The state bred races are certainly much weaker, but you still wouldn't expect that a horse who was running dead-last in an open nwx1, would win a state-bred nwx1.

I wouldn't? I believe in the significance of class relief, so I thought he was a perfectly logical contender today, and considering he was the freaking FAVORITE IN THE RACE, I wasn't the only one.

Reddam sent two horses east that should've been out here a while ago and they both won. I don't see how that's some indisputable condemnation of O'Neill.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I wouldn't? I believe in the significance of class relief, so I thought he was a perfectly logical contender today, and considering he was the freaking FAVORITE IN THE RACE, I wasn't the only one.

Reddam sent two horses east that should've been out here a while ago. I don't see how that's some indisputable condemnation of O'Neill.

It's certainly not an indisputable condemnation of O'Neil. But it doesn't make him look very good.

Overextended was 6-1 on the morning-line. He certainly got bet way down going off at 5-2. But we don't know how much of that money was inside money.

I certainly think Overextended improved today. I don't think a repeat of his dead-last finish in his previous race in the open nwx1 would have been good enough to win the race today.

I do admit that Notional is a much better horse on conventional dirt, so that could have been a big reason for his improvement.

[10 pnt move up]

Didnt Overextended at 5/2 no less need a miracle fall apart to get up and win? He should be 30/1 in nw2x next time.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Didnt Overextended at 5/2 no less need a miracle fall apart to get up and win? He should be 30/1 in nw2x next time.

yeah, i think today's race will be hard to repeat on a fast track against better. I think the maiden first time starter ran faster in the previous race.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It's certainly not an indisputable condemnation of O'Neil. But it doesn't make him look very good.

Overextended was 6-1 on the morning-line. He certainly got bet way down going off at 5-2. But we don't know how much of that money was inside money.

I certainly think Overextended improved today. I don't think a repeat of his dead-last finish in his previous race in the open nwx1 would have been good enough to win the race today.

I do admit that Notional is a much better horse on conventional dirt, so that could have been a big reason for his improvement.

I'm pretty sure if they had NY-bred allowance races in California, Overextended wouldn't have been finishing last in anything under O'Neill.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'm pretty sure if they had NY-bred allowance races in California, Overextended wouldn't have been finishing last in anything under O'Neill.

I agree. The state-bred races are much weaker. When a horse goes from an open nwx1 to a state-bred nwx1, I would expect the horse to improve.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

With regard to your comment about stakes company in California, over the last 15 years or so I think that California horses have fared much better when they have shipped to NY, than NY horses have done when they ship to California.

More like the last 50 years

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

More like the last 50 years

I was trying to be nice. LOL.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

More like the last 50 years

Dont you agree though that to be considered great Cali horses have to ship and win and not the other way around, so rarely the best east coast horses are sent west? Take Azeri, some people did not think she was all she could be until she won at Saratoga.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Dont you agree though that to be considered great Cali horses have to ship and win and not the other way around, so rarely the best east coast horses are sent west? Take Azeri, some people did not think she was all she could be until she won at Saratoga.

I think you are right. I think there is a big East coast bias. But that doesn't mean that it is justified.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Dont you agree though that to be considered great Cali horses have to ship and win and not the other way around, so rarely the best east coast horses are sent west? Take Azeri, some people did not think she was all she could be until she won at Saratoga.

In many cases yes but racing has changed alot in recent years. Really California racing is one circuit and "east coast" racing is many circuits. That is the major difference. Now you have the synthetic track factor to deal with. But it has always been harder for East coast horses to go West than vice versa for whatever reason and that has been the case seemingly forever.