Gossage in, No Rice!

[fpsoxfan]

Congrats to Goose Gossage. I'm a Sox fan, but "The Goose" is well deserving.
He was one of the old time relievers where he pitched more than 3 outs to earn a save. On the other hand, it's a crime that these weasal sports writers who probably never played the game could not come up with enough votes for Jim Rice. Rice was a blue collar player in the non-steroid era. He deserves to be in. What a joke! Oh well, maybe next year.

[Scav]

Rice will get in next year, 16 votes is nothing in 365 days. I also think the Hawk and Dale Murphy will get in also, maybe the Hawk in two years and Dale in three years.

[Crown@club]

Rice will get in next year. I have no doubt about it. Put him in on his final year. What a crime to these players. These guys want to be rewarded in front of their families. Most don't get the luxury, some players themselves may not be alive to celebrate it. Just check out the Goose's story.

[King Glorious]

Numbers are one thing and how one fares against his contemporaries is another. I wouldn't care if baseball went through a stretch where the top home run hitter hit only 10 per year. If those 10 were enough to lead the league and over the course of a decade, the top home run hitter only hit 100 homers, he's getting my vote. That's what Rice was. He was the most feared hitter in the game for over an extended period of time. So what if he didn't play long enough to reach the so called "magic" numbers. He played long enough to prove that for what was at least an eight-year stretch, he was the most feared hitter in the game. To me, that means more than the final numbers.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Scav

Rice will get in next year, 16 votes is nothing in 365 days. I also think the Hawk and Dale Murphy will get in also, maybe the Hawk in two years and Dale in three years.

Two other guys who showed class and dignity, not to mention the fact they could hit the shiat out of the baseball.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Numbers are one thing and how one fares against his contemporaries is another. I wouldn't care if baseball went through a stretch where the top home run hitter hit only 10 per year. If those 10 were enough to lead the league and over the course of a decade, the top home run hitter only hit 100 homers, he's getting my vote. That's what Rice was. He was the most feared hitter in the game for over an extended period of time. So what if he didn't play long enough to reach the so called "magic" numbers. He played long enough to prove that for what was at least an eight-year stretch, he was the most feared hitter in the game. To me, that means more than the final numbers.

Very well-said King!

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

His stats.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/alltim...d=11569&type=0

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by Scav

Rice will get in next year, 16 votes is nothing in 365 days. I also think the Hawk and Dale Murphy will get in also, maybe the Hawk in two years and Dale in three years.

he WON"T get those votes. still has to many enemies in the press. he was not liked by the media in boston or ny.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Rice will get in next year, 16 votes is nothing in 365 days. I also think the Hawk and Dale Murphy will get in also, maybe the Hawk in two years and Dale in three years.

There is no way that Dawson or Murphy should or will get in. Neither is or was as good as Dave Parker who played longer and has better stats and he has no chance. They simply did not do it high enough for long enough. I think the more I think about Rice he probably shouldn't get in either. These guys need to be compared to other Hall of Fame outfielders and when you do so, they just aren't up to it. The writers got it right for a change. I still believe that the biggest injustice is that Buck o'Neill wasn't voted in at least in a special capacity while he was alive. He may not have been quite good enough as a player but he certainly has contributed more to the game than Bowie Kuhn, among others.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

he WON"T get those votes. still has to many enemies in the press. he was not liked by the media in boston or ny.

Plus he wasn't really good enough. This is hardly a great injustice.

[Cannon Shell]

But then again he was probably as good a hitter as Cepeda who is in, though mostly as a 1st baseman.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Numbers are one thing and how one fares against his contemporaries is another. I wouldn't care if baseball went through a stretch where the top home run hitter hit only 10 per year. If those 10 were enough to lead the league and over the course of a decade, the top home run hitter only hit 100 homers, he's getting my vote. That's what Rice was. He was the most feared hitter in the game for over an extended period of time. So what if he didn't play long enough to reach the so called "magic" numbers. He played long enough to prove that for what was at least an eight-year stretch, he was the most feared hitter in the game. To me, that means more than the final numbers.

Using this logic Dick Allen belongs too because his 8 year stretch is better than Rice's especially in light of the fact that some of it was accomplished in the modern day deadball era.

Blyleven belongs.

He wont get in.
Switched teams too many times.
Always whining.
Somewhat of an a-hole.

But the guy had one of the best curves
ever. And he was a big game player.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Blyleven belongs.

He wont get in.
Switched teams too many times.
Always whining.
Somewhat of an a-hole.

But the guy had one of the best curves
ever. And he was a big game player.

He had the misfortune to play for mostly bad teams. He has the numbers but W/L is such a big stat for thw writers that they dont see the rest. If he played now he would be a $18 million a year pitcher. He had 242 complete games. Lifetime ERA of 3.31 despite pitching an average of 245 innings a year. Hell if he only knew he had to pitch 6 or 7 like todays guys his ERA would probably be under 3.00. He did strike out 3700 guys. Like you said he was a great post season pitcher for the few good teams he did pitch for.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He had the misfortune to play for mostly bad teams. He has the numbers but W/L is such a big stat for thw writers that they dont see the rest. If he played now he would be a $18 million a year pitcher. He had 242 complete games. Lifetime ERA of 3.31 despite pitching an average of 245 innings a year. Hell if he only knew he had to pitch 6 or 7 like todays guys his ERA would probably be under 3.00. He did strike out 3700 guys. Like you said he was a great post season pitcher for the few good teams he did pitch for.

And I guarantee he believes more than
everything you wrote and is
bitter.

But I can still see the huge hook
that guy could throw.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He had the misfortune to play for mostly bad teams. He has the numbers but W/L is such a big stat for thw writers that they dont see the rest. If he played now he would be a $18 million a year pitcher. He had 242 complete games. Lifetime ERA of 3.31 despite pitching an average of 245 innings a year. Hell if he only knew he had to pitch 6 or 7 like todays guys his ERA would probably be under 3.00. He did strike out 3700 guys. Like you said he was a great post season pitcher for the few good teams he did pitch for.

True Story!!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Using this logic Dick Allen belongs too because his 8 year stretch is better than Rice's especially in light of the fact that some of it was accomplished in the modern day deadball era.

# of top five finishes in the MVP voting:
Allen-2 (won once)
Rice-6 (1)

# of seasons finishing in the top five in HR's:
Allen-4 (2)
Rice-5 (3)

# of seasons finishing in the top five in RBI:
Allen-3 (1)
Rice-7 (2)

# of seasons finishing in the top five in extra base hits:
Allen-6 (3)
Rice-5 (1)

# of seasons finishing in the top five in total bases:
Allen-3 (1)
Rice-5 (4)

# of seasons finishing in the top five in hits:
Allen-1 (0)
Rice-5 (1)

# of seasons finishing in the top five in batting average:
Allen-3 (0)
Rice-4 (0)

# of seasons finishing in the top five in slugging %:
Allen-7 (3)
Rice-5 (2)

I don't know that Allen's stretch was better than Rice's was. I rank them more among their peers than among players from different years. Perhaps Allen's standings, while very good, weren't higher because he competed against better players. That could be. But I don't think that Allen was more dominant among his peers than Rice was over his and that's what I look at.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Blyleven belongs.

He wont get in.
Switched teams too many times.
Always whining.
Somewhat of an a-hole.

But the guy had one of the best curves
ever. And he was a big game player.

his best seasons were the late 70's with the pirates.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is no way that Dawson or Murphy should or will get in. Neither is or was as good as Dave Parker who played longer and has better stats and he has no chance. They simply did not do it high enough for long enough.

NO way murphy was close to parker as a player. dawson and parker are close, dawson always played for bad teams.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

NO way murphy was close to parker as a player. dawson and parker are close, dawson always played for bad teams.

Dawson actually played for some pretty good Expos teams in the early 80's including one that may have made the WS if not for the strike. Murphy was really only a top player for 5 or 6 years. Parker surely would have had a better career if not for the drug issues and various injuries that took away parts of his prime.