Poor Willie Randolph

MaTH716 · #1 09-30-2007, 06:44 PM

I am sure that the segment of Mets fan that have never embraced Wille Randolph (because he is a former Yankee) will be calling for his head tonight. But if they take a good look at their team, they would see that it was not Willie's fault that they lost. Start with the Pitching, to say it has been horrible the last few weeks is an understatement. Besides Pedro's start last week and Maine's gem yesterday the whole staff has been bad. To get less than an inning from a future hall of famer today says it all. The bullpen coughed up all kinds of leads the last few weeks too. Since Mota has been off the juice, he has been just bad. Heilman is just too inconsistant, and Wagner tailed off in the second half of the season. When the Mets hired Rick Peterson, it was like the stole Jesus Christ from the A's and he knew how to fix every pitcher the Mets had. Where was all his magic in the end? You knew they had problems when they had guys like Humber & Lawerence making starts in big games down the stretch. As far as the offense, they did score runs. It seemed that they scored 6 every game, but too bad that they gave up 10. Alou, Wright and Castillio seemed to be the only guys that hit when it counted. Jose Reyes, was being touted as a possible MVP candidate at the all star break had a miserable second half of the season. He didn't hit, he made errors and he didn't run balls out. He also might have fired up a Marlins team that was probably looking for thier vacations to start. Instead they came to Shea today to stick it up Jose's and the Mets asses. When Jose went the Mets went with him. Carlos Beltran's numbers aren't bad but he this years Mets version of last years A-rod. Good numbers but no memorable clutch hits. Also Omar Minaya, did nothing at the deadling to sure up his pitching staff. I give Willie a lot of credit, he was stoic during the biggest collapse in history. I am sure that he deserves a bit of blame but he should not be the sacrifical lamb. Lets face it, when the Mets were playing great in the first 3/4 of the season they weren't saying "that Willie Randolph is the greatest manager in the history of the game". Omar Minaya better take a good look at the team that he thought was going to win the series. It doesn't need to be tinkered with, it needs to be overhauled. Because bottom line is that this was a total TEAM collapse.

SCUDSBROTHER · #2 09-30-2007, 07:04 PM

Honestly,I think they would of held on if REYES wasn't allowed to do a celebritory dance every time he scored a damn run.Damn dugout turned into a disco playground for that guy.If there is one thing Randolph did wrong it is to let that guy act that way.Every National League team has had to watch that guy do a dance in the 1st half of ball games.Fine,you want to let him act that way? People are gunna crave beating you.After that guy has rubbed people's noses in the dirt the last 2 years,of course they are trying extra hard to beat that a hole,and he won't be doing a celebration dance anytime soon...btw Those are some fly shades Rollins has.Does here where those all season.or just special for this weekend?

golfer · #3 09-30-2007, 07:19 PM

Willie needs to be fired. That's what you get when you are the manager of one of the greatest collapses in sports history. Period.. end of story. Sure it wasn't all his fault, but he is the man in the seat of responsibility.

MaTH716 · #4 09-30-2007, 07:56 PM

[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]Honestly,I think they would of held on if REYES wasn't allowed to do a celebritory dance every time he scored a damn run.Damn dugout turned into a disco playground for that guy.If there is one thing Randolph did wrong it is to let that guy act that way.Every National League team has had to watch that guy do a dance in the 1st half of ball games.Fine,you want to let him act that way? People are gunna crave beating you.After that guy has rubbed people's noses in the dirt the last 2 years,of course they are trying extra hard to beat that a hole,and he won't be doing a celebration dance anytime soon...btw Those are some fly shades Rollins has.Does here where those all season.or just special for this weekend?[/QUOTE]

I think he does some skeet shooting in between innings.

Cannon Shell · #5 09-30-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Honestly,I think they would of held on if REYES wasn't allowed to do a celebritory dance every time he scored a damn run.Damn dugout turned into a disco playground for that guy.If there is one thing Randolph did wrong it is to let that guy act that way.Every National League team has had to watch that guy do a dance in the 1st half of ball games.Fine,you want to let him act that way? People are gunna crave beating you.After that guy has rubbed people's noses in the dirt the last 2 years,of course they are trying extra hard to beat that a hole,and he won't be doing a celebration dance anytime soon...btw Those are some fly shades Rollins has.Does here where those all season.or just special for this weekend?

Maybe he is just shell shocked from the pitching staff throwing batting practice the last month or so. muscle twitch thing...

Cannon Shell · #6 09-30-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer

Willie needs to be fired. That's what you get when you are the manager of one of the greatest collapses in sports history. Period.. end of story. Sure it wasn't all his fault, but he is the man in the seat of responsibility.

And this would accomplish what exactly?

When your pitching staff was as bad as his was down the stretch, what is he supposed to do?

Why does everybody need to fire someone? Realistically the way they are throwing the ball they were going out early in the playoffs anyway. They were a flawed team and that flaw was badly exposed during the 2nd half of the season, not bad managing.

pdrift1 · #7 09-30-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And this would accomplish what exactly?

When your pitching staff was as bad as his was down the stretch, what is he supposed to do?

Why does everybody need to fire someone? Realistically the way they are throwing the ball they were going out early in the playoffs anyway. They were a flawed team and that flaw was badly exposed during the 2nd half of the season, not bad managing.

exactly chuck, half of milwaukee is calling for yost head- it was our starting pitching all the way thru to our hideous bullpen. like its yosts fault these knuckleheads in the bullpen cant execute. who has the worse bullpen in the majors? milwaukee or the mets? i wouldn't give a squirt of piss for either one!!
thank god the season is over , this rollercoaster ride ive been on for the last week and a half has worn my patience out. thank god a break from sports after the bc. wait there is nascar-bullet in head please

dylbert · #8 09-30-2007, 09:52 PM

still Amazing after 45 years... at least with disAstros, I knew we were out of race in May...

Big market team like Mets should never miss playoffs. Cubs finally figured out spending like Yankees can buy you a Division title, and they're FOR SALE.

SCUDSBROTHER · #9 10-01-2007, 12:11 AM

Well,one issue(poor pitching) is complicated.The other more obvious issue would be somebody like Reyes hitting .200 in September etc.The team kind of feasted off that guy getting them cheap runs.You take that away,and it can cause of problems(and one of them is pitchers getting tight.)I mean if Penny was on a decent run-scoring team,he would come pretty close to being a 20 game winner.He has a ton of pressure on him because he rarely gets early runs(and he is fat.)If ya simply look back to the playoff games last year,you will see that the Dodgers got some runs off the Mets pitching,but couldn't stop the Mets from scoring.Once you have somebody like Reyes(who is very important to this team) struggling,it is a serious problem.They had a specific way of winning games(mainly overpower them offensively,) and they didn't even come close to doing that on Friday,or Sunday(even though they got 5 walks from Willis.)Then,you have Philly doing a great job in September.As far as Randolph goes, it all depends on your philosophy about whether you think players need to be held accountable,because you only have one way to punish them(and that is to change their manager.)I'm not saying somebody else will be better,but if you want to send a message(that they f'd up,and it better not continue,) then changing managers is the only real way you can do that.Grady Little made huge tactical mistakes.He must go.I don't know the way Randolph managed.

docicu3 · #10 10-01-2007, 02:01 AM

It's either a small insignificant thing or the element that defines why the team came unglued as the bell tolled game 160.....161......162.

Reyes never seemed to be answering to anybody even when his talents were clearly weaknesses because of an inability to use them at proper times.....games where his speed became liabilities because of outs run into.....acting like there isn't enough mustard in the universe to satisfy the ultimate hot dog!!

Running into 3rd outs at crucial times because he had done it successfully at other times just spit in the eye of traditional smart baseball acumen....fighting with a dead and disinterested adversary who had every reason to lie down the last weekend of the season but rose like gladiators to the cause was all precipitated by misplaced priorities. It probably is Randolph's job to reel in a guy like this but the Mets will have brighter Octobers as this is a young deeply talented team that will only get better in coming years....you fire Randolph your just missing the point of everything good about the progress made this season.

timmgirvan · #11 10-01-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And this would accomplish what exactly?

When your pitching staff was as bad as his was down the stretch, what is he supposed to do?

Why does everybody need to fire someone? Realistically the way they are throwing the ball they were going out early in the playoffs anyway. They were a flawed team and that flaw was badly exposed during the 2nd half of the season, not bad managing.

Of all the answers, this is the one I'll go with for this season....the bullpens were arson squads! Not even a manager can change that issue. Little does need to be fired...but it looks like he's back for 08 and 09! The Dodgers youth movement must be served, plus Frank can shave monster payroll for a year. Randolph should stay because the Mets were paper-thin in pitching Before Pedro was hurt, then Mota gets popped! Enjoy the playoffs,Boys!

golfer · #12 10-01-2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And this would accomplish what exactly?

When your pitching staff was as bad as his was down the stretch, what is he supposed to do?

Why does everybody need to fire someone? Realistically the way they are throwing the ball they were going out early in the playoffs anyway. They were a flawed team and that flaw was badly exposed during the 2nd half of the season, not bad managing.

5-12 in the last 17 games.. the pitching stunk, but so did the defense. the Mets were more interested in performing their home run celebrations/hand slapping than they were in running out ground balls

. As I said, it's not all Willie's fault, but he is ultimately responsible. The team quit on him, a top quality manager finds a way to get them to the playoffs despite all the problems down the stretch, even if the eventuality is an early exit. In my opinion, while Willie is not a bad manager, he has done nothing to prove he is above average (although I must admit my opinion comes mostly from perception, because I don't follow this all that closely, because I really don't even like baseball). I do consider myself an expert on heartbreak/dissapointment, as I have been a life-long Jets fan.

MaTH716 · #13 10-01-2007, 11:29 AM

First thing, I really do not think that they are that young of a team.Sure they have Wright, Reyes, Beltran and a couple of young unproven arms. Guys like Maine and Perez do have potential, but still have a way to go. Milliadge looks like he could be special if he ever stopped dancing and watching his home runs. As far as Pelfrey and Humber, who knows. Do you remember Isringhausen, Pulphiser and Wilson? So I think they have to tinker with this team.
As far as Randolph's x's and o's go. On the pitching side, every guy he put in imploded. No one was able to do the job. On the offense, they did score runs in a couple of these games that they lost. I believe that they lost 5 games in which they scored 5 or more. The rest of the time it was just Alou and Wright. Look how many men they left on base yesterday. It is hard to hit and run if no one gets on base. The fact that Reyes was terrible really hurt the Mets. I think that was the biggest factor to the collapse. As good as Jimmy Rollins has been in helping the Phillies surge, is as bad as Reyes has been. I think Randolph's hands were tied, what was he supposed to do bench Delgado and Reyes? It just wasn't Willie's fault!