invasor is similar to alysheba

alysheba4 · #1 04-01-2007, 09:49 AM

in the fact that they can win at ANY race track whether its santa anita, pimlico, churchill , belmont.....whatever. you just dont see that type of versatility anymore, i hope invasor comes back to the states and continues to
the b. cup.

ArlJim78 · #2 04-01-2007, 09:58 AM

Good Point, also he can handle different types of adversity, pace, traffic, etc.
He is an amazing battler, warrior.
being versatile, extremely fast, and having the ability to really run all day are a great combination. I have made the comment before that he is a very agile, athletic horse, with great poise as well.

POINTGIVEN1985 · #3 04-01-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Good Point, also he can handle different types of adversity, pace, traffic, etc.
He is an amazing battler, warrior.
being versatile, extremely fast, and having the ability to really run all day are a great combination. I have made the comment before that he is a very agile, athletic horse, with great poise as well.

if invasor runs his race, can any horse currently in training beat him ?

Danzig · #4 04-01-2007, 10:07 AM

article after the dwc says suburban is next on the agenda for invasor.

Holland Hacker · #5 04-01-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alysheba4

in the fact that they can win at ANY race track whether its santa anita, pimlico, churchill , belmont.....whatever. you just dont see that type of versatility anymore, i hope invasor comes back to the states and continues to
the b. cup.

IMHO Invasor is better than Alysheba, Alysheba couldn't run without Lasix. He finished 4th in the Belmont when he ran without Lasix.

ArlJim78 · #6 04-01-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

IMHO Invasor is better than Alysheba, Alysheba couldn't run without Lasix. He finished 4th in the Belmont when he ran without Lasix.

I think so too, I was just trying not to be confrontational.

Danzig · #7 04-01-2007, 10:21 AM

always liked alysheba, he was a heck of a horse. i even named a dog after him!
but i think invasor is better then alysheba. he's better than a lot of horses that have been given 'great' labels.

Sightseek · #8 04-01-2007, 10:27 AM

Alysheba did set some track records though...

Danzig · #9 04-01-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Alysheba did set some track records though...

yes he did. er, if i wanted to be a smart ass, i'd say so did najran...but i don't, so i won't!! lol

Sightseek · #10 04-01-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

yes he did. er, if i wanted to be a smart ass, i'd say so did najran...but i don't, so i won't!! lol

Well that is truthful as I think Bandini had a track record too but I thought Alysheba's records came from breaking a long-standing record. I'm not sure if they were a product though of the circumstances surrounding the race ie. set-up, track condition.

miraja2 · #11 04-01-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

IMHO Invasor is better than Alysheba, Alysheba couldn't run without Lasix. He finished 4th in the Belmont when he ran without Lasix.

True, but despite winning the Derby, Preakness, and Super Derby as a 3yo, Alysheba ws much better as a 4yo than he was in his 3yo campaign.
He won 6 G1s & a G2 as a 4yo including the Big Cap and the BCC. Right now I think it is a pretty fair comparison, although I too would probably give the slight edge to Invasor.
IF, however, Invasor continues to race this year, wins a couple more G1s and repeats in the BCC (right now there are a lot of reasons to think he might do that) he will move way past Alysheba and will have to move into the discussion with a pretty elite group of horses. This one is impressive.

Danzig · #12 04-01-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Well that is truthful as I think Bandini had a track record too but I thought Alysheba's records came from breaking a long-standing record. I'm not sure if they were a product though of the circumstances surrounding the race ie. set-up, track condition.

no, he broke the 10f at meadowlands--he ran several sub-2.00 10f races in a row, i think that was a record as well. i'm being a bit facetious in comparing him to the great najran.

i don't think i'm taking a thing away from alysheba if i say i think invasor is better. i think invasor is THAT good.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #13 04-01-2007, 10:41 AM

Right now, Invasor is the more talented horse because of his race record. Alysheba got better with age in his four old season. He wasn't anything without lasix though, in the long run it may come to the breeding shed where one does better than the other...Alysheba has kinda been a bust.

pmayjr · #14 04-01-2007, 10:42 AM

I'll throw a Seabiscuit comparison out there too. Has Invasor ever romped in a race? I think he seriously toys with his opponents. Premium Tap was game all the way down the stretch yesterday, and Invasor drew even with him for a long time, and then in deep deep deep stretch he puts on the afterburners and blows by him.

saucon17 · #15 04-01-2007, 10:49 AM

A couple of months ago when McCarron was on TVG Legends.
G Stevens asked him of all the great Handicap horses he rode
what horse would you ride if they were all in the same race this
included Sunday Silence, Tiznow, Alysheba, Alphabet Soup and
many others. CJ said no question it would be Alysheba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz99ipc-KOw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjyPzs0uTM

Cannon Shell · #16 04-01-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Right now, Invasor is the more talented horse because of his race record.

You are joking right?

Cannon Shell · #17 04-01-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmayjr

I'll throw a Seabiscuit comparison out there too. Has Invasor ever romped in a race? I think he seriously toys with his opponents. Premium Tap was game all the way down the stretch yesterday, and Invasor drew even with him for a long time, and then in deep deep deep stretch he puts on the afterburners and blows by him.

Seabiscuit ran more in one summer than Invasor ran in three years

JJP · #18 04-01-2007, 11:08 AM

I think Invasor is very good but we have a tendency to sometimes overestimate the most recent horse or athlete. I don't think I can hold the Lasix thing against Alysheba; its legal everywhere in North America. If they had a Dubai World Cup back in 1988 does anybody think a Euro or South American horse would've stood a chance against Alysheba? No way.

Danzig · #19 04-01-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

I think Invasor is very good but we have a tendency to sometimes overestimate the most recent horse or athlete. I don't think I can hold the Lasix thing against Alysheba; its legal everywhere in North America. If they had a Dubai World Cup back in 1988 does anybody think a Euro or South American horse would've stood a chance against Alysheba? No way.

well, since you're not allowed lasix in dubai, it might have hindered his chances there.

Cannon Shell · #20 04-01-2007, 11:11 AM

The problem with modern day racing is that no one really races anymore. Greatness in a horse used to be defined by many things among them winning important races over several seasons while carrying weight. Also a horse was judged by the calibur of competition that they were racing against which is a big problem for horses like Invasor who has really not faced much in the way of competition. The race yesterday was a perfect example of that. He has already proven that he a better horse than Premium Tap. What did he do yesterday except prove that again. With Discreet Cat obviously in some sort of distress, I cant really say that Invasor moved up in historical standards by winning that race regardless of the purse. It is not Invasors fault that he has no other top horses to compete against and he does win but he has yet to defeat a horse who would even be considered to be in the same breath as a hall of famer.