On Which Surface?

[King Glorious]

For those of you that think that Curlin and Big Brown should meet in the BC Classic to settle the championship, do you also think that Ginger Punch, Zenyatta, Hystericalady, and Proud Spell should meet in the grass to determine the older female champion? Maybe they should run the Arc on the dirt this year to determine the European champion. Doesn't this all make sense? I mean, think about it. Here, we've got the two top ranked male dirt horses in the country and they should have to settle the debate on a surface that neither has ever run on. Makes perfect sense. Hell, in order to make it even better, let them decide it on a surface that to date, NOBODY has ever run on. What's not perfect about this?

[TheSpyder]

Slowly put the bong down and back away.....

[AeWingnut]

except for Hysterical Lady I agree.

[cowgirlintexas]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

Slowly put the bong down and back away.....

I laughed

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

Slowly put the bong down and back away.....

Look at it this way. There are three possible ways this could play out if both Curlin and Big Brown run in the Classic.

1-They both take to it, both run their "A" races and we are treated to a good show and left with no doubt as to who's the best.

2-Only one takes to it, wins easily while the other is a non-factor. We have no clue who is the best and the result is irrelevant.

3-Neither take to it, Go Between wins over Well Armed, Curlin and Big Brown finish 7th and 8th. We have no clue who is best and the result is irrelevant.

All of this is assuming that Henrythenavigator doesn't just win it no matter how well they like the track.

The point is that there is just as much chance, actually an even better chance, that we'll get a result that's totally irrelevant than one that is relevant. I can't see how that's good.

[ArlJim78]

i'd say that spyder has offered the most relevant advice.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Look at it this way. There are three possible ways this could play out if both Curlin and Big Brown run in the Classic.

1-They both take to it, both run their "A" races and we are treated to a good show and left with no doubt as to who's the best.

2-Only one takes to it, wins easily while the other is a non-factor. We have no clue who is the best and the result is irrelevant.

3-Neither take to it, Go Between wins over Well Armed, Curlin and Big Brown finish 7th and 8th. We have no clue who is best and the result is irrelevant.

All of this is assuming that Henrythenavigator doesn't just win it no matter how well they like the track.

The point is that there is just as much chance, actually an even better chance, that we'll get a result that's totally irrelevant than one that is relevant. I can't see how that's good.

The way you have framed it actually makes for a compelling argument. I see your point.

Unfortunately, like it or not, poly is here to stay and there is no doubt a bumpy road ahead. This is certainly a pretty lame but necessary bump.

[CSC]

All races should be run on grass...

[blackthroatedwind]

I think KG is probably basically right. The idea of Curlin and Big Brown theoretically deciding who is better on a completely different surface than they have ever run on is about as inane as the Arc, arguably Europe's Championship race, being decided on the dirt. It's meaningless.

In retrospect, Zenyatta going to Oaklawn may be the most definite championship performance of the year.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

In retrospect, Zenyatta going to Oaklawn may be the most definite championship performance of the year.

What if Hystericalady or Ginger Punch should somehow win the Distaff? The sad thing is that Hystericalady has so far shown a disdain for the synthetics, and now must race over it if she hopes to win a championship, while the surface gives Proud Spell an excuse to avoid another meeting with Music Note (unless Darley sends her to the Cotillion for a "rubber match").

Your post also got me thinking about other categories. If you had an inconclusive result in the Filly and Mare Sprint, who would deserve year-end honors for female sprinter: Intangaroo or Indian Blessing? Can Street Boss, who has been really impressive in his races this year, win the champion sprinter award without ever leaving California, and never racing on conventional dirt?

[Danzig]

they need to have a new set of eclipses for top poly horses--oh, excuse me...top AWT horses.

we have a division for turfers, so they need to quit playing like the fake is the same as the real, and have a separate division for the other NON dirt horses as well.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

except for Hysterical Lady I agree.

Everyone always spells her name this way...even in a lot of articles it spells it this way...but I'd think people would read her name enough times in the Form to know that there are no spaces in the official spelling.

I know I'm nitpicking here on something really unimportant lolol

[sdjcom]

I think 1 race decides nothing. As we all know years ago top horses ran against each other and sometimes split the wins after several confrontations.
Any horse can have a bad day, so one race means nothing.

[CSC]

I know when I was a kid, one sporting event that stuck with me throughout the years was the Ruffian/Foolish Pleasure match race. I know there's a snowball's chance of this happening for Curlin/BB, but if they ever wanted to sell the sport of horseracing, this would be a homerun in terms of generating interest.

[sdjcom]

Originally Posted by CSC

I know when I was a kid, one sporting event that stuck with me throughout the years was the Ruffian/Foolish Pleasure match race. I know there's a snowball's chance of this happening for Curlin/BB, but if they ever wanted to sell the sport of horseracing, this would be a homerun in terms of generating interest.

Yes, it created a big to do, and TV, but we haven't had a match race since, I remenber Foolish Pleasure running on home and Ruffian"s leg broken in 3 places just dangling while she stood there in 3 turn. That's why we'll never see another match race in our lifetime. To risky for the Flak if something bad happens

[sdjcom]

Originally Posted by Danzig

they need to have a new set of eclipses for top poly horses--oh, excuse me...top AWT horses.

we have a division for turfers, so they need to quit playing like the fake is the same as the real, and have a separate division for the other NON dirt horses as well.

I agree with you somewhat, why not have a point system, and award horses for the 3 different surfaces on their finish position, and at end of year tally up and the top horses go to breeders cup. Each horse must run at least 1 time on all 3 surfaces. Let's make it interesting. Turf racing is must more predominate now along with artificial, which is here to stay. Just an idea.

[letswastemoney]

Well the Breeder's Cup isn't supposed to determine the division champion anyway. We're supposed to be basing this on the all around effort of the whole year right?

So just take the synthetic BC for what it is, and base horse of the year off of whether you think Curlin winning multiple G1s against older horses is more impressive than Big Brown winning multiple G1s against 3 year olds.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by sdjcom

Yes, it created a big to do, and TV, but we haven't had a match race since, I remenber Foolish Pleasure running on home and Ruffian"s leg broken in 3 places just dangling while she stood there in 3 turn. That's why we'll never see another match race in our lifetime. To risky for the Flak if something bad happens

1 1/8 at Belmont Park, get some corporate sponsership, TV money, Free PR, some celebs to come out, Obama to show up...ect...make it a major event...oh stop dreaming...it's just makes too much sense for it to happen.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

There have been match races since that. Right before she retired, Julie Krone and PVAL rode in a match race.

i'm not sure why some still stick to the fable that there haven't been any match races since the foolish pleasure/ruffian race.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Well the Breeder's Cup isn't supposed to determine the division champion anyway. We're supposed to be basing this on the all around effort of the whole year right?

So just take the synthetic BC for what it is, and base horse of the year off of whether you think Curlin winning multiple G1s against older horses is more impressive than Big Brown winning multiple G1s against 3 year olds.

it's funny tho...in a non-humorous way. people say it shouldn't decide the championship, and then invariably you have people questioning why a horse skips the bc, with questions as to whether they should be eligible for year-end honors. it happened with mineshaft, and has already been brought up about curlin. it's horse of the year, not horse of the bc, so i absolutely agree that it shouldn't be what determine's championships. but in some categories, it does since so many voters haven't got a clue who the top horses are in a division, so they rely on that one days' races-which explains why many voters shouldn't be. they need a better system to decide who gets what.