turned down the increase in tax on oil companies.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080610/...qxjWMCpems0NUE

Not surprised that Republicans turned down the increase in tax on oil companies. Remember, in some convoluted way, this is good for the average American (right, un huh.) Why are the against the tax breaks for alternative energy sources. Got to see them sell that sh-tty load of garbage.

"Separately, Democrats also failed to get Republican support for a proposal to extend tax breaks for wind, solar and other alternative energy development, and for the promotion of energy efficiency and conservation. The tax breaks have either expired or are scheduled to end this year."

[wiphan]

Why would you want to tax a company for making profits? Taxing an oil company would only result in higher gas prices to the consumer. The company is not going to make less $ they will just pass the tax along to the consumer. If your business was selling oil would you want an extra tax just because you are making $. The way to lower oil prices and gas prices is thru drilling for oil in ANWR or off shore or use the oil shale that is prevalent everywhere in the US especially in the Dakota's. Not by taxing oil companies. Typically the democrats have blocked drilling/exploration in the past. Also, higher gas prices actually promote companies and people to finding alternative fuels or higher efficiency. We may not like it, but it has to hurt a little before any of us decides to actually do something or make changes.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Most Economists argue that taxes stick to their bases: payroll taxes are largely paid by employees, sales taxes by consumers, and profit taxes by shareholders.The oil companies are taking about a 10% profit of what the consumer pays for gas.If they cut that to 5%, then Exxon Mobil would still make more than the 2nd most profitable U.S. Corp. (Walmart.) This 5%(of the price we pay for gas) could be used to encourage the growth of alternative sources of energy. If you want to know what's being passed on to the consumer, it's the hi price of gas that the airlines have to pay.Higher costs on low profit margin industries are passed on in higher prices to the consumer. What I don't get (at all) is the justification for being against tax breaks for alternative energy sources. You didn't write about that.

[wiphan]

Why should the government dictate the profit of any company? Don't you like capitalism? What you are suggesting is socialism more so by controlling how much a private company makes on its goods or services without allowing them to explore or drill for more oil. How does that make sense? You tell a company they can only make so much $ on what they are selling and in turn control them from making the product cheaper by not allowing them to explore or drill for more oil If we opened up drilling the price of oil would drop in half. Also employees don't pay all of payroll taxes employers pay SSI and Medicare as well if I am not mistaken

[wiphan]

http://www.anwr.org/Headlines/Charim...y-Converts.php

Check this article out. Might get more $ towards alternative energy sources without taking the $ out of our pockets. The problem with most democratic policies is that they like to tax business (which ulitmately taxes consumers) or tax consumers directly to achieve these subsidies or tax breaks for wind, solar etc. We could actually achieve this quicker and more efficiently by just opening up ANWR. Just my 2 cents

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Why should the government dictate the profit of any company? Don't you like capitalism? What you are suggesting is socialism more so by controlling how much a private company makes on its goods or services without allowing them to explore or drill for more oil. How does that make sense? You tell a company they can only make so much $ on what they are selling and in turn control them from making the product cheaper by not allowing them to explore or drill for more oil If we opened up drilling the price of oil would drop in half. Also employees don't pay all of payroll taxes employers pay SSI and Medicare as well if I am not mistaken

Can't you tell - Scuds is a Socialist.

But a humorous Dodger Fan.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

Can't you tell - Scuds is a Socialist.

But a humorous Dodger Fan.

[Storm Cadet]

How about the Democrats 2nd part of that bill where they wanted to SUE OPEC for price fixing. Dumb asses don't know that you don't sue OPEC...they'll tell us to take a hike and go buy oil elsewhere!

[GBBob]

[quote=Storm Cadet]How about the Democrats 2nd part of that bill where they wanted to SUE OPEC for price fixing. Dumb asses don't know that you don't sue OPEC...they'll tell us to take a hike and go buy oil elsewhere![/QUOTE]

Sueing OPEC is grandstanding a bit, I agree, but OPEC isn't go to tell us to ever take a hike.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Just don't call me a Republican or a Communist.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Why should the government dictate the profit of any company? Don't you like capitalism? What you are suggesting is socialism more so by controlling how much a private company makes on its goods or services without allowing them to explore or drill for more oil. How does that make sense? You tell a company they can only make so much $ on what they are selling and in turn control them from making the product cheaper by not allowing them to explore or drill for more oil If we opened up drilling the price of oil would drop in half. Also employees don't pay all of payroll taxes employers pay SSI and Medicare as well if I am not mistaken

This isn't true capitalism. There isn't true competition, and that's why somebody else doesn't have a chance to sell gas at a 5% profit instead of at a 10% profit. Sure, if there was a free market system in place,then you would have competition, and we would be paying about half the profit that we now pay to them. It's a fake system. Do bigscreen televisions all sell within $20 of each other(for the same inches?) No,they compete with each other. If you really want Capitalism, THEN ACT LIKE IT. Should be a lot more difference in the various prices of gas. There isn't.

[timmgirvan]

The fact that Exxon-Mobil is getting out of the market in the US should be a clue! I heard somwhere that we have reserves and oil(undrilled) to last the US for 100+ yrs. That should get us enough time to get all the green sciences on board for standing alone independently for energy. If the Knuckleheads in Washington REALLY wanted to secure the future generations, they'd be building desalinisation plants and finding a "safe" nuclear solution. In addition, The FARCE that is the stock market plays up the fear by speculations on how bad its gonna get here, the FDA couldnt put a safe drug on the market to save its butt,and govt controls and supervision of agriculture are bungled and mismanaged routinely. I think I'm done for now.......

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Why would you want to tax a company for making profits? Taxing an oil company would only result in higher gas prices to the consumer. The company is not going to make less $ they will just pass the tax along to the consumer. If your business was selling oil would you want an extra tax just because you are making $. The way to lower oil prices and gas prices is thru drilling for oil in ANWR or off shore or use the oil shale that is prevalent everywhere in the US especially in the Dakota's. Not by taxing oil companies. Typically the democrats have blocked drilling/exploration in the past. Also, higher gas prices actually promote companies and people to finding alternative fuels or higher efficiency. We may not like it, but it has to hurt a little before any of us decides to actually do something or make changes.

I totally agree 100%.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

The fact that Exxon-Mobil is getting out of the market in the US should be a clue! I heard somwhere that we have reserves and oil(undrilled) to last the US for 100+ yrs. That should get us enough time to get all the green sciences on board for standing alone independently for energy. If the Knuckleheads in Washington REALLY wanted to secure the future generations, they'd be building desalinisation plants and finding a "safe" nuclear solution. In addition, The FARCE that is the stock market plays up the fear by speculations on how bad its gonna get here, the FDA couldnt put a safe drug on the market to save its butt,and govt controls and supervision of agriculture are bungled and mismanaged routinely. I think I'm done for now.......

Invest in uranium mining companies and sit on it.

[Mortimer]

Visit Franklin ...CAH-SOL...in the night----when it's dark.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Visit Franklin ...CAH-SOL...in the night----when it's dark.

no tanks....two scary

[SCUDSBROTHER]

If there are 300 million Americans, then, for each $13 of gas each of them use, oil companies make about a billion bucks. That 10%($1.30) is what we are talking about. That would vary from $0.40 to $1.30 if there was competition involved. There isn't. They've agreed to all charge pretty much that same 10%, and nothing is done to get competition into the market that would cut that down to 5% etc. It's not capitalism. It's something else, and that's why they wanted to tax that industry. It's a protected monopoly. Americans claim foul at taxing them, but don't realize their is no competition in this industry. If it was an open competition to get you the best price possible, then all these Republican claims to leave them alone would be quite valid. As the price of oil rises, this monopoly's 10% profit goes way up. They made a quarter when it cost $2.50 a gallon. When it hits $5.00 a gallon,they will make fifty cents a gallon. Still no competition to allow others to get you gas for less profit than that 10%. You can buy oil, but they control all the refineries. They keep the refining capacity very limited. Unless more companies own refineries, there will remain virtually no competition. At some point Americans will get it, but not soon. Generally ignorant about the lack of competition, and that is crystal clear each time someone says it's capitalism(it isn't.) Capitalism would involve many companies trying to get their part of that 10% of the price you pay for gas. That isn't allowed to take place. It isn't Capitalism. You look like a fool each time you say it is.

Imo the bottom line is that oil is limited
and we are being forced to become innovate
which will be painful at first, but will pay off later.
China's thirst followed soon by India will only add
to the problem. No way we go 100 years based
on their consumption. Not even close.

We have got to find alternative sources.
Oil's main use in this country is for transportation
of materials and people.
Making plastics, using it for heating, etc... secondary.

Our source of electrical energy is mainly Coal.
(Which we have lots of but is dirty) Need to go nuke and
then turnover to more wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, etc...
which we are actually doing slowly (not the nuke part)

Oil prices going crazy like this will force us to
look into alternatives. Solar (because it is so readily available)
is the obvious alternative with one huge problem... We cannot
store it efficiently. If we could store it, cloudy
days, and all the other problems, wont matter.

Imo there is not near enough money put into
research on "batteries" to store this energy.
If someone comes up with a "battery" that
stores solar energy, the world will change
drastically imo.

So Morty, get to work. I will need the battery design yesterday.
My electric car run by stored solar energy is waiting
in the garage.

[DogsUp]

I think what people fail to keep in mind are two things:

1) Corporations and the wealthy will always find a way to avoid paying taxes. Until you close the loopholes in the tax code, nothing will change.

2) You can raise the tax on oil companies all you want. It will not matter. All the oil companies (or any company) will do is pass the extra cost they incurred back to the consumer. If you raise the tax on them 10%, they will raise their costs by 10%.