No Dime Supers at NYRA on Fri. and Sat.

[Holland Hacker]

Just wanted to give some of you Guys & Gals a heads up that there will not be any dime supers offered by NYRA on Friday and Saturday.

According to NYRA's website they are not allowing Dime Supers on Friday and Saturday, I guess Churchill & Pimlico didn't show a drop in super wagering with out the dime Super so NYRA is following suit.

Since I'm not a big Super play this doesn't impact me but I know some of you guys do play the dime supers so I wanted to give you a heads up.

I am looking forward to the Brooklyn / Belmont Double and I just noticed that the website (NYRA.com) states that it is "only available ontrack and via telebet."

[ateamstupid]

Shocking, really. Betting at Belmont on Saturday is going to be torture. I'm gonna put my pick fours in early and just enjoy the day.

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

I guess Churchill & Pimlico didn't show a drop in super wagering with out the dime Super so NYRA is following suit.

Extremely counterintuitive. Very hard to believe. (well, i didn't even know Pimlico had dime supers, but haven't played their sans Preakness).
Something is extremely wrong if the dime supers do not generate more money for the SUPER pools. However, that is NOT increased money in the OVERALL pools. The extra money in the super pools is coming from the small bankroll players, who have a set amount to lose. Whether they lose it in the dime super or the win/place/show or the exacta pool doesn't matter. In other words dime supers do not affect total handle. They should affect super handle unless the track is doing something wrong.
It seems like another case of the tracks not getting it, if they aren't showing an individual pool increase.

All that said, I am generally against dime supers, and always against them in feature races and stakes races. I do think they have their place in cheaper tracks, and polytrack races of over 8 entries.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Extremely counterintuitive. Very hard to believe. (well, i didn't even know Pimlico had dime supers, but haven't played their sans Preakness).
Something is extremely wrong if the dime supers do not generate more money for the SUPER pools. However, that is NOT increased money in the OVERALL pools. The extra money in the super pools is coming from the small bankroll players, who have a set amount to lose. Whether they lose it in the dime super or the win/place/show or the exacta pool doesn't matter. In other words dime supers do not affect total handle. They should affect super handle unless the track is doing something wrong.
It seems like another case of the tracks not getting it, if they aren't showing an individual pool increase.

All that said, I am generally against dime supers, and always against them in feature races and stakes races. I do think they have their place in cheaper tracks, and polytrack races of over 8 entries.

Ok, you have me intrigued, what does the surface have to do with the type of exotic wager to play?

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Scav

Ok, you have me intrigued, what does the surface have to do with the type of exotic wager to play?

You get some of these cheaper races on polytrack and it seems at least to me to diminish the difference between who the 4th and 8th best animals. Maybe all the slots to some degree.

-Ive hit dime supers in chaos situations at Arlington for example that i wouldn't even have bet the race otherwise, much less bet a heavy $1 superfecta to take it down.

In a stakes race, I don't want the dime super(on any surface). Especially in the "classics". If I did a great job of deciding that the 6th betting choice is better than the 4th betting choice, then I don't want to share "my" super pool with coverage dimers.

just my opinions, i could be off base

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

You get some of these cheaper races on polytrack and it seems at least to me to diminish the difference between who the 4th and 8th best animals. Maybe all the slots to some degree.

-Ive hit dime supers in chaos situations at Arlington for example that i wouldn't even have bet the race otherwise, much less bet a heavy $1 superfecta to take it down.

In a stakes race, I don't want the dime super(on any surface). Especially in the "classics". If I did a great job of deciding that the 6th betting choice is better than the 4th betting choice, then I don't want to share "my" super pool with coverage dimers.

just my opinions, i could be off base

I don't think it's a bad opinion... for example I think the Derby super might have paid significantly (~15%?) less if they had dime supers.

[Alan07]

There are no dime supers at Pimlico

[2MinsToPost]

Agree 100% they have their place and it is not on big days like the Triple Crown, Breeders Cup etc etc.. For one you have so much money rolling thru the windows that the last thing these folks should be worried about is increasing handle with dime supers. They basically will just clog the lines with inexperienced players confusing tellers on one of the busiest four days in racing.

I totally agree with you as well on the idea of just having them on races such as Claiming and MSW. I think tracks should have two of them per card, it really is not necessary to have one for every race.

[Travis Stone]

Dime supers have a tendency to hurt other pools and the tracks overall handle.

With a dime super, a person will take $10 and spend $2.40 on the four horse box at a few difference tracks. Without dime supers, they often take the $10 and spend it at the home track instead.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Dime supers have a tendency to hurt other pools and the tracks overall handle.

With a dime super, a person will take $10 and spend $2.40 on the four horse box at a few difference tracks. Without dime supers, they often take the $10 and spend it at the home track instead.

Yeah, but that's the home track's fault for not having dime supers.

There isn't much to base an argument one way or another on, but I feel like people are just looking at the decreased ticket prices and saying it hurts handle, and not factoring in new players who wouldn't have played the super AT ALL were it not available for $.10.

[bmont22]

If they allowed dime supers on Saturday one would have to get on line to bet the 10th around the 5th. Imagine all the once a year players fumbling to call out or punch in their supers.
They could still have them on Friday.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by bmont22

If they allowed dime supers on Saturday one would have to get on line to bet the 10th around the 5th. Imagine all the once a year players fumbling to call out or punch in their supers.
They could still have them on Friday.

I still think that the "dime supers tie up the lines" is a myth.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Dime supers have a tendency to hurt other pools and the tracks overall handle.

With a dime super, a person will take $10 and spend $2.40 on the four horse box at a few difference tracks. Without dime supers, they often take the $10 and spend it at the home track instead.

You are too young to remember but tracks in CA used to say the same thing about "exotic" wagers. They used to have a $5 min on many of the "exotic" bets like exacta's. We see how that's worked out.

[justindew]

It might be becasue some tracks (like Churchill. Not sure if Belmont does this) have to bring in temporary mutuel clerks on big days, and they would need additional training to be able to take dime supers. For instance, I know on some tote machines there is no button for a .10 wager. It requires additional steps for the teller.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by justindew

It might be becasue some tracks (like Churchill. Not sure if Belmont does this) have to bring in temporary mutuel clerks on big days, and they would need additional training to be able to take dime supers. For instance, I know on some tote machines there is no button for a .10 wager. It requires additional steps for the teller.

They bring in clerks from upstate that normally work summers in Saratoga.
In addition to that I'm sure they train some temporary clerks. Even with that betting lines get very long. I was there in 2002 and it was a lot of fun, but the lines were long for everything.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Dime supers have a tendency to hurt other pools and the tracks overall handle.

With a dime super, a person will take $10 and spend $2.40 on the four horse box at a few difference tracks. Without dime supers, they often take the $10 and spend it at the home track instead.

we covered this before, there is no way to back that up and it doesn't make any sense. why base your wagering menu on a few geezers walking around with $10 to wager? even if you succeeded in capturing the full $10 from all these people by not offering the dime super (which I dont believe is possible), do all those $10 add up to more than you lose from the ADW people that like the dime supers but go elsewhere cause you don't offer it? or how about the $10 players who stay home because they came to the track specically to play them?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I still think that the "dime supers tie up the lines" is a myth.

We don't know one way or another because there hasn't been a day with 100,000 in attendance that had dime supers. We can only talk in terms of potential, and it has the POTENTIAL to be a total cluster****. Though I don't think it would be that severe, I think that they would cause SOME slowdown, which is not something you can afford on a day where it take 10 minutes to make a bet.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

We don't know one way or another because there hasn't been a day with 100,000 in attendance that had dime supers. We can only talk in terms of potential, and it has the POTENTIAL to be a total cluster****. Though I don't think it would be that severe, I think that they would cause SOME slowdown, which is not something you can afford on a day where it take 10 minutes to make a bet.

When there are 100,000 people at any track it is a cluster****. Keeneland seems not to have a problem despite a crowded grandstand every Fri, Sat, and Sunday. Novices just box 3 or 4 numbers anyway. Does it take longer to say 1 dollar trifecta box 3/4/7 than it takes to say .10 super box 2/4/7/9 ? Your logic assumes that these people who dont know how to bet are going to be constructing elaborate tickets when most of the tourists will be betting 2 bucks across the board. It doesnt take any longer to call out ten cent supers as it does 1 dollar supers. Plus arent all you guys betting at the high dollar windows anyway?

[ateamstupid]

I don't think many people are going to be constructing elaborate tickets, but rather calling out a million combinations one-by-one.. That's way worse..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't think many people are going to be constructing elaborate tickets, but rather calling out a million combinations one-by-one.. That's way worse..

That simply doesnt happen.