El Gato Malo

[TheSpyder]

That was a very impressive win for only his third race. Is this horse great? Just kidding but definatley one to keep an eye on.

Spyder

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

That was a very impressive win for only his third race. Is this horse great? Just kidding but definatley one to keep an eye on.

Spyder

Join the bandwagon. I listed him as my second ranked 3yo recently.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

That was a very impressive win for only his third race. Is this horse great? Just kidding but definatley one to keep an eye on.

Spyder

They went crazy up front.....that track looks good now, why rip it up

That was a clown shoes race.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

That was a clown shoes race.

I was track side and could not beleive how fast they went. 44 for the half, crazy. The track looks bad down towards the rail.

[rontheman1964]

Imagine the look on Bejarano's face when Baffert told him, "Go out and let him rip from the gate. Go 1:07 and change and we outta be able to coast home from there."

How did 3 top-notch jockeys run their horses into the ground like that? What did the trainers learn about their horses' that anyone here on this board couldn't have told them? Horses don't go 1:07 in a mile race and still hang around to win the race. You don't have to know alot to be able to figure that much out. If any one of the 3 riders would have pulled his horse back off of the pace on the backstretch he would have been in the perfect spot and the race may had a different finish.

Was this race the product of the track being too fast and favoring speed too much?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by rontheman1964

Imagine the look on Bejarano's face when Baffert told him, "Go out and let him rip from the gate. Go 1:07 and change and we outta be able to coast home from there."

How did 3 top-notch jockeys run their horses into the ground like that? What did the trainers learn about their horses' that anyone here on this board couldn't have told them? Horses don't go 1:07 in a mile race and still hang around to win the race. You don't have to know alot to be able to figure that much out. If any one of the 3 riders would have pulled his horse back off of the pace on the backstretch he would have been in the perfect spot and the race may had a different finish.

Was this race the product of the track being too fast and favoring speed too much?

I think GOMEZ was pretty much out of sink after he came 2nd on the 3-5 in the previous race.Let's face it,he would rather relax every horse,and make a run.In the 4th,they wouldn't let him do it.They simply wouldn't go at all from the gate.Banner Lodge was already trying something new(2 turns,) and now had nothing to chase.I had him singled in the pick 4,and new I wasn't gunna cash(soon as there was no pace.)Garrett forced him to lay 2nd(if he had let him lead,he probably would have lost,too.)So,Garrett got beat laying 2nd on a 2/5 running on a relatively slow pace.So,now comes the 5th race.Again,a horse who he can't rate(for a different reason.)By this time,I really think Garrett had no clue what to do with a horse with speed(who was beaten to the front by Bafferts send horse.)I think Garrett panicked.He didn't think he could win by laying 2nd(he just tried that on a very good horse,and got beat.)Remember,he got beat laying 2nd on a moderate pace.So,in his mind,why try that again?Also,Garrett was probably not happy that he couldn't get the lead from the guy who just beat him on a 3/5 shot(Bejarano.)There were a number of reasons this fry job took place.I would ignore the race of anybody involved up front.Totally a throw out.Very hard to say how good the winner is.47 3/5 111 3/5 IN THE 4TH RACE,and Garrett got beat laying 2nd.That's why he wasn't gunna try to be a patient 2nd in the 5th.See,it didn't work(in his mind,) and so he wasn't thinking he could win if he was patient.That's part of this.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by merasmag

but your 3.5 thru me for a loop today

You're almost retarded.Having to draw a straight line would throw ya for a loop.

[eajinabi]

El Gato Malo SEEMED to win in style but he was cruising past three knuckle-head jocks who thought they were in a 5 furloung dash.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by merasmag

i'm not gonna pull up the quote about what u said about speed there the past 2 days...speed looked ok for a few big races there...maybe not the winners, but nobody important hung

Bring it up(the quote.) Thursday n' Friday played a lil antispeed(magnified by guys going too fast.)Today seemed more fair(although very fast times.)They had an outside stretch bias (especially Thursday) that they hopefully got rid of now.Banner Lodge got beat because he couldn't chase a fast pace.They would have been better off entering in a 2 turn stakes race(and getting some pace to chase.)Had nothing to do with the track.He was taught to do one thing(pounce on pace horses,)and was asked to do something else(lay close up on no pace.)This was a possibility(him gettin' beat this way.)He is a very good horse,but (at this time) needs to chase pace.If he gets pace to chase,he will dominate(and people know this,and he will again pay nothing.)

That race could be used as a talking point for postnatal abortions.

[King Glorious]

I think that before anyone automatically discards the results of this race because of they think was an insane speed duel, they would be wise to look at how all of the races on this stuff have been playing out. If you use your conventional thinking of times and fractions and what constitutes a speed duel or a really fast race, you will be way off. For example, if a normal half mile at the track goes in 45 2/5 and you see some horses run in sub-44, it's safe to assume they were going insanely fast. If the norm is 44, however, and some horses go 43 3/5, they might not be going too fast. On this track, we are seeing 6.5f going in under 1:14. We just saw Indian Blessing run a sub-1:20 for 7f. They are going under 1:40 for 8.5f. Conventional thinking doesn't apply on this track.

[TheSpyder]

I agree. Zappa set a track record yesterday so you know it's fast as Sh**. If they ran at Delmar people would say it was a good race but slow.

Spyder

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think that before anyone automatically discards the results of this race because of they think was an insane speed duel, they would be wise to look at how all of the races on this stuff have been playing out. If you use your conventional thinking of times and fractions and what constitutes a speed duel or a really fast race, you will be way off. For example, if a normal half mile at the track goes in 45 2/5 and you see some horses run in sub-44, it's safe to assume they were going insanely fast. If the norm is 44, however, and some horses go 43 3/5, they might not be going too fast. On this track, we are seeing 6.5f going in under 1:14. We just saw Indian Blessing run a sub-1:20 for 7f. They are going under 1:40 for 8.5f. Conventional thinking doesn't apply on this track.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think that before anyone automatically discards the results of this race because of they think was an insane speed duel, they would be wise to look at how all of the races on this stuff have been playing out. If you use your conventional thinking of times and fractions and what constitutes a speed duel or a really fast race, you will be way off. For example, if a normal half mile at the track goes in 45 2/5 and you see some horses run in sub-44, it's safe to assume they were going insanely fast. If the norm is 44, however, and some horses go 43 3/5, they might not be going too fast. On this track, we are seeing 6.5f going in under 1:14. We just saw Indian Blessing run a sub-1:20 for 7f. They are going under 1:40 for 8.5f. Conventional thinking doesn't apply on this track.

They also would be wise to watch the replay, before hastily coronating El Gato Malo as the standout out West (there are several good colts here this winter), where they would see 3 horses going balls out from the bell (Denman even comments that MSW Sierra Sunset was "hard ridden" to keep contact at the 3/8s pole) and stopping to a walk at the 1/4 pole (again noted by Denman). Whether or not the adjusted internal fractions play along with the idea of a crazy speed duel, fact is 3 talented horses hooked up very early in a two turn race and burned each other up, setting it up for another very talented horse who had good foundation and was capable of relaxing the first part of the race.

Some of those Santa Anita results are a bit tough to swallow, kind of like this year's BC. It wasn't shocking that El Gato Malo won yesterday, just as it wasn't shocking when Curlin won the Classic, but the manner in which they won in such high profile races seems a bit anomalous (and I understand that EGM previously had two runaway victories over lesser company).

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

They also would be wise to watch the replay, before hastily coronating El Gato Malo as the standout out West (there are several good colts here this winter), where they would see 3 horses going balls out from the bell (Denman even comments that MSW Sierra Sunset was "hard ridden" to keep contact at the 3/8s pole) and stopping to a walk at the 1/4 pole (again noted by Denman). Whether or not the adjusted internal fractions play along with the idea of a crazy speed duel, fact is 3 talented horses hooked up very early in a two turn race and burned each other up, setting it up for another very talented horse who had good foundation and was capable of relaxing the first part of the race.

Some of those Santa Anita results are a bit tough to swallow, kind of like this year's BC. It wasn't shocking that El Gato Malo won yesterday, just as it wasn't shocking when Curlin won the Classic, but the manner in which they won in such high profile races seems a bit anomalous (and I understand that EGM previously had two runaway victories over lesser company).

How he's evaluated after this race probably depends on your opinion going into the race. Going in, I had him as easily the best 3yo in California so nothing he did yesterday changed that opinion. I don't think there are any really good ones out here after you get past him and Colonel John, as far as Classic prospects go. I also didn't feel that the speed duel was as pronounced as some others think it was. Sure, they were going fast but I didn't think it was insanely fast and I thought that the leaders were doing it well within themselves. Sierra Sunset was hard ridden to keep up but I don't think it's cause they were going to fast, rather I think it's just that he's not as fast as they are. The race did set up perfectly for El Gato Malo though. There is no denying that fact. But I hope people don't totally write off the result. It's sort of like the 2004 Kentucky Derby. So many people were quick to write it off as a result of the track conditions and failed to recognize that the two most likely horses to run 1-2 did just that. I think that when track or race conditions yield results that aren't expected, that's when they should be taken with a grain of salt.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

How he's evaluated after this race probably depends on your opinion going into the race. Going in, I had him as easily the best 3yo in California so nothing he did yesterday changed that opinion. I don't think there are any really good ones out here after you get past him and Colonel John, as far as Classic prospects go. I also didn't feel that the speed duel was as pronounced as some others think it was. Sure, they were going fast but I didn't think it was insanely fast and I thought that the leaders were doing it well within themselves. Sierra Sunset was hard ridden to keep up but I don't think it's cause they were going to fast, rather I think it's just that he's not as fast as they are. The race did set up perfectly for El Gato Malo though. There is no denying that fact. But I hope people don't totally write off the result. It's sort of like the 2004 Kentucky Derby. So many people were quick to write it off as a result of the track conditions and failed to recognize that the two most likely horses to run 1-2 did just that. I think that when track or race conditions yield results that aren't expected, that's when they should be taken with a grain of salt.

That's fair enough, and something that wasn't touch upon was the optimum distance of Massive Drama and Talk Of A Cat, which is probably less and certainly no more than a flat mile. It's possible that El Gato Malo won't stretch too much further (not that he'll have to beyond the Triple Crown) than 9f, but certainly his running style is conducive to routing and was made to order the way the race set up (note that plodder-in-the-making Indian Sun clunked up for the place).

Beyond EGM and Colonel John, a couple of other colts to look to out west would be Into Mischief (who Oak Tree maiden win was just as monstrous as EGM's and seems to be overlooked both before and after the Futurity), Signature Move (who has won 2 starts on raw talent, but seems a little green and untested), and I suppose Miamonides (who probably has one foot on a banana peel and the other on a rollerskate).

As far as the '04 Derby, I don't really think Lion Heart would have placed in that spot without the wet surface. 10f didn't seem to be in his range (though his Travers is a throwout as evidence with the broken foot and all). I think the fact that a middle distance type like Limehouse holding on for 4th plays to that. But, like you say, maybe he was second just because he was a top class colt, as the other good horses in there like Birdstone (probably underprepared) and The Cliff's Edge (unsound and shoeless) had excuses.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

That's fair enough, and something that wasn't touch upon was the optimum distance of Massive Drama and Talk Of A Cat, which is probably less and certainly no more than a flat mile. It's possible that El Gato Malo won't stretch too much further (not that he'll have to beyond the Triple Crown) than 9f, but certainly his running style is conducive to routing and was made to order the way the race set up (note that plodder-in-the-making Indian Sun clunked up for the place).

Beyond EGM and Colonel John, a couple of other colts to look to out west would be Into Mischief (who Oak Tree maiden win was just as monstrous as EGM's and seems to be overlooked both before and after the Futurity), Signature Move (who has won 2 starts on raw talent, but seems a little green and untested), and I suppose Miamonides (who probably has one foot on a banana peel and the other on a rollerskate).

As far as the '04 Derby, I don't really think Lion Heart would have placed in that spot without the wet surface. 10f didn't seem to be in his range (though his Travers is a throwout as evidence with the broken foot and all). I think the fact that a middle distance type like Limehouse holding on for 4th plays to that. But, like you say, maybe he was second just because he was a top class colt, as the other good horses in there like Birdstone (probably underprepared) and The Cliff's Edge (unsound and shoeless) had excuses.

Getting to Lion Heart that day, I agree absolutely that he wasn't a 10f horse per say. But I know that he could handle 9f (won the Haskell and was nosed out by TCE in the Blue Grass). I thought that more than the track condition, it was the fact that he was allowed to run unchallenged up front that "carried" him a bit further than most thought he would last. That's something we see time and time again in racing; a horse that's not supposed to last gets left alone and gets brave on the front and are hard to catch. The more natural class that horse has, the harder they are to catch. Intercontinental in the BC F/M Turf is a prime example of that.

I think you hit on something that probably is the best way of viewing yesterday's race. It probably wasn't the pace that did the front runners in or the track as much as neither of them seems to want to run that far period.