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Originally Posted by timmgirvan
GR: Had to take my son to LAX for travel to England...Had JITB Breakfast sandwiches on the way back(YUM). I was hoping that you knew what a precedent was(I knew you did,but you were just being a lib). I don't know the circumstances of Lincolns' play, and I do know that it is Congress' baliwick. My understanding is that the law has restrictions and checks/balances included, so that your favourite cowboy can't run roughshod over AMERICANS. Not so with the foreign enemy combatants. Maybe when I'm more familiar with the law I can comment on it. I think the internment camps are our country's biggest shame(pretty much bar none). My only statement in Lincolns' defense is that the country had never been in civil war and he did what he thought he had to do. As with Bush,both were faced with situations never encountered before in the halls of Government. I'm tired now, so I'll talk to you later! Have a good one! Timm
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Hey, Timm; hope your son had an easy flight and a good time in England (I loved my two visits there). The problem with the "Well, the gov't can't pick up American citizens" argument against this new law I believe I addressed earlier, but I'll rehash it-- if the government would say, pick you up and jail you for being an "enemy combatant" how the hell are you going to get anyone to listen to your claims that you are an American citizen and this is a mistake? You're not permitted access to legal counsel; you won't be told the charges against you and in fact, they can hold you as long as they like without bringing the charges. So how are you going to get anyone to listen to you? You're not. You really think this government is going to be absolutely infallible with this new authority? How many innocent people have we put into Guantanamo and Abu Gihraib (which I can never seem to spell)? Even one is too many if it's your own self. Are you willing to be locked up "accidentally" for three years because the government made a mistake in the name of fighting terrorism? Are you willing to be waterboarded for a mistake? Are you willing to see your family locked up and waterboarded for a mistake? Because if you're not willing to kiss three years of your own life goodbye, or that of your son's, or your wife's, then you don't have any business thinking this law is just or right or fair.
I can't even address the "well, it's just for foreigners" on the moral grounds because it's so very upsetting to me that anyone would stand by and think being held without access to legal counsel is acceptable for non-citizens. Please let me know how you feel about the thought of your son being picked up in a foreign nation (he's in one now, right?) and held for years without access to counsel because he's not a citizen. America-- "If it doesn't affect myself directly, then f*ck it."
Terrorism isn't an opponent; it's a tactic. It was used by Timothy McVeigh, by every man who has shot doctors, by the Atlanta bomber and by the right-winger who sent envelopes with white powder to Democratic government officials (remember that?). It's a tactic. Not an opponent. But until recently, our terrorists were all home-grown so we ignored them. And Bush and his cronies have seized on the first attack by foreigners on our soil as justification to take away the balance of power in this nation. And we've all stood back and let them.
Look, anyone who is pleased with these developments, may I suggest China? You get your authoritarian government AND they aren't as deeply in debt as we are. In fact, China has lent us a ton of money. Grab it, guys! Your chance to be in on the next superpower, since democracy doesn't seem to be the Republicans' cup of tea anymore. And you won't have to listen to nasty, whiny dissenters, since really, they're all traitors anyway! What are you waiting for? Same government, better economy!
In the meantime, how was lunch?
(leftover fried rice and oatmeal cookies, here)