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Originally Posted by timmgirvan
KRIM: I read the articles....and to tell the truth, I was troubled by the secret prison revalation! But, in reality, laws are meant for the lawbreaker, and in War, especially a clandestine war...the security of our once safe country comes first! These are scary times, but I'm not worried too much about the Govt. BTW...Danzig...thanks for your imput.
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Timm, you're "troubled" by the secret prison revelation? You're aware that in those prisons prisoners held by the US have been tortured, some to death? By a nation claiming that we're better than the terrorists we fight? Does that "trouble" you? How on earth can we claim the moral high ground when we torture? And for what possible use is torture? If an American soldier was captured, and put through the "methods" these prisons have used, would you believe anything he admitted to the enemy?
9/11 terrified us. Virtually alone among the world, we were the only country to have been spared terrorist attacks, other than the previous attempt in '93 and our own home-grown terrorists, who struck in Oklahoma City and in Atlanta and at abortion clinics. And our reaction has been to beat our chests and march into a nation that didn't have anything to do with the 9/11 attacks (that would be Iraq), while at home we hand over our freedoms to an Administration that is doing everything it can to keep us in a constant state of terror.
I want to quote one of the letters written about an article on Salon about the aftermath of 9/11-- oh, here's the link to the article, too:
http://salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/09/09/loss/
<<And when it did happen, did our supposed representatives make the most of that momentary (international) solidarity and do the right thing? Of course not. They pulled off a underhanded power grab, and five years later we're clinging to the last illusions of freedom we've got - the freedom to spend money on superfluous crap while our government squeezes all the joy out of our lives, setting us at each other's throats in panic. And they can do that because the American PEOPLE have been happy to go along with it, all in the name of the fantasy of "security" which is no security at all. We're not only not "safer", we're in more danger than ever, because a populace made timid and complicit is far more vulnerable than one strong and secure in its own self, regardless of whether there is an outside threat or not.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt was right - The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Benjamin Franklin was also right - Those who would surrender essential liberties in exchange for a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. The worst threat comes from within us, and I do hope that someday we'll figure that out. But frankly, I doubt it. Methinks the time of America's greatness is past, and we're on the downhill side.>>
Telling ourselves that our gov't should be allowed to spy on us and throw citizens in jail without benefit of counsel or knowing the charges against them because they'll only spy on bad people is naive at best, sheeplike at worst. It easily becomes a "do whatever you want; just please leave me alone" and how on earth do we stay a united nation when we are willing to let the next guy be dragged off into the night? How do we hold our heads up when we let our government, the government WE put in place, take away our rights? Because 19 hijackers got lucky and killed 3,000 people? For that, we give up our freedom? Who wins then? Us, or them?
And here's something else to put in your crystal balls-- from Andrew Sullivan's website:
<<Next week, I'm informed via troubled White House sources, will see the full unveiling of Karl Rove's fall election strategy. He's intending to line up 9/11 families to accuse McCain, Warner and Graham of delaying justice for the perpetrators of that atrocity, because they want to uphold the ancient judicial traditions of the U.S. military and abide by the Constitution. He will use the families as an argument for legalizing torture, setting up kangaroo courts for military prisoners, and giving war crime impunity for his own aides and cronies. This is his "Hail Mary" move for November; it's brutally exploitative of 9/11; it's pure partisanship; and it's designed to enable an untrammeled executive. Decent Republicans, Independents and Democrats must do all they can to expose and resist this latest descent into political thuggery. If you need proof that this administration's first priority is not a humane and effective counter-terror strategy, but a brutal, exploitative path to retaining power at any price, you just got it.>>
Is that the country you want to live in?
Guys, if this does come out to be true, please be aware of it for what it is-- an attempt to hold onto power by terrifying the American people. Is that a war on terror or a war of terror? You tell me.