[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Not to be confrontational on this exact note either, but I can't just take that for what this former Bush speechwriter says they are. That's like asking me to take Cheney's word for it.

Now, before you go say "well it's in the memos," let's also point out that given my serious, very serious, issues with that administration's honesty and given the fact that the memos justifying torture are being ripped apart by scholars all over because they use pathetic reasoning to justify it, sorry if I don't immediately freak out in celebration that this actually provided actionable intelligence on specific threats.

Sure the LA Tower threat. But on the flip side, a Polish friend of mine got mad at me the other day and put his hands around my neck. To get him to stop, I sang like a bird about my plan to overthrow the government of Poland and turn it into a permanent gay vacation destination, a Polish gayDisney, if you will.

Now, because I was so foolish in succumbing, the Polish government has "actionable intelligence" to foil that threat of mine. Damnit!!!

See, it's all in who's telling you what. So, sorry if I'm not quick to jump on the former Bush speechwriter's claim that this was all on the up-and-up and that it was effective. Can't think of any other reasons he would do that, outside of a penchant for being honest about everything, right?

Which is exactly the problem with this issue. You dont believe the source because of a relationship with the administration yet who else is there to know if the info is correct? Therefore regarding the whole issue it is impossible to reach a true and valid conclusion. The gray areas far outweigh the black and white.