What does it take to make a living at punting?
 

Spyder’s recent thread (“Were you a winner or loser this year?”) has motivated me to quit my months of lurking and contribute to the conversation with this query: What does it take to make a living at punting?

It seems near impossible to get an accurate figure on the percentage of bettors who actually turn a large enough profit on which to live. I’d guess that those who do probably aren’t talking much about it in public forums. Alydar commented, on Spyder’s thread, that 95% of the players he knew did not win in the long run. This jives with what I’ve read in books and on the web (for what that’s worth), but I’d guess that even less, maybe 2%, actually make a decent living at gambling on horses.

Here are my thoughts on what is necessary to produce a viable income:
1) Enough time and discipline to treat it like a job. This means a full workday of such things as watching replays, updating your personal databases on whatever statistics work for you, handicapping the form or whatever you look at for past performances, selecting the best plays, and then going to the track or the turf club or a wagering site (plus, keeping accurate records of your money, afterwards).
2) Having the fortitude to sit out most of the races on a card (or cards) and wait for your selected play (I’ve heard this called having an “iron a$$”), and being able to pass on your selected play if the odds don’t reach your value line.
3) Being able to financially support yourself through those long periods of drought between the big hits that make all your dough for the year.
4) Maintaining a big stake and making huge bets. I remember reading about some self-proclaimed pro who said that he made six figures a year, but pushed nearly a million dollars through the windows to make it.

Personally, as much as I love the sport (okay, “monomaniacal” isn’t too strong a word), I’ve decided that treating my passion like a job would su¢k the very life out of it. If I break even at the end of the year, while having enjoyed some good times, I’m happy.

You need a strong leg and it helps to play in a dome, the ball travels farther when its warm and there is no wind. A good long distnace snapping center is also invaluable.

Stop brushing your teeth.

In my opinion, it takes a plan, a lot of energy, and the balls to back your opinions with real money.

I think the dome thing is more valuable than a strong leg. I imagine its gotta be hell trying to puntin Lambeau field or in New England in January.

Smarta$$es. But seriously, haven't you ever toyed with the idea of having your own "$50,000 year at the races?"

I played full time for years. It takes a severe dedication.

If I was happy my total income from all sources was $50,000 a year I would shoot myself in the face.

I agree with you, you must treat it like a job and, I admit it, I simply do not have the time and financial backing to go "all-in". I still love the game, with a passion, but I cannot afford to really make it with my current situation.

I do wish you the best of luck, Shadow, and hope it will work out for you...

ALostTexan

In regards to track handicappers, is this what most of them do for their full-time jobs? It seems most of the picks they give out are "safe" plays and not the horses that are at a good value. I'm guessing what they play at the window is much different?

I would take $50K/year from racetrack betting over $200,000/year in the working world any time.

I feel that the most important thing is where you are in your life. Do you have a mortgage, do you have children, do you have a car payment, etc etc. If you need $3k a month to pay your bills just to survive then maybe being a professional gambler isn't the best career choice.

Also, you have to treat anything that is your sole income as a full time job. If you are a professional gambler, it might mean that you only play a couple of races a week or it could mean an entire day wagering. It requires dedication, continuing education, in depth analysis and extreme patience.

I also feel that you need to set a weekly financial goal. Wether it is $500 or $2000 a week. Then one has to pick the races for that week that gives you the best chance of winning your weekly goal. Maybe it is a simple bet like an exacta box or just playing to win. An aquintance of mine is a professional horse player. He has zero debt and no one that relies on him for anything. He plays only exactas. He searches for exactas that pays $18 or higher. Then he will play a $200 exacta box. The cost of his ticket is $400 and if he hits then his gross payout is $1800.00. His net would be $1400.00. He has done just OK. Nothing really to brag about but he does it for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week.

totally agree with the first part...full time gambling is something I think should be for the person who does not have any dependants. That way if you go under the only person you hurt is yourself.

2 things you've gotta have IMO:

1. Lots of disposable income, and enough bankroll behind you so that you're not betting "scared"

2. A little bit of luck. I like the analogy of the so-called expert money managers who pick a stock or fund at the beginning of the year....then they have a monkey point to one (or someone throw a dart...whichever). The monkey or dart always finish respectably. This is not a science. The charts and speed figures and research are certainly valuable information, but at the end of the day, they've gotta run the races, and horses take bad steps & jockeys make bad choices.

Just my 2 cents & I agree with you that it would take the enjoyment out of it for me too...

Oh yeah...If you can kick it consistently to about the 10 yard line with a lot of hang time and no return, that helps. Don't go for the one yard line....it'll just bounce or roll into the end zone & frustrate you in the long run....and don't think you can count on the special teamers to swat it back out into the field of play....they almost always step on the line. And...it helps if you can still look cool in the "unibar" helmet....although I guess that's outlawed now...

You need to get paid well when you are correct.Getting paid well for it is very difficult.So,these exchanges(that allow players to cut the juice to a minimum)would be the way to go.If a horse pays $6.00 to win at the track,you need to find a way to get atleast $7.00 for it(minimum.)The best exchanges are in Europe.I play TVG,because I want to help pay the purse money etc.,and I am a horizontal player(and don't trust some of these rebate sites to pay when... for instance,last year, I won a $5800 on a pick 3 that I only put $16 into...that would have been a nightmare to get a rebate site to pay up.)Lets say you play just one bet a week.You isolate some horse that pays $6.00 to win at the track.You put 2K on it to win.If you play it at the track,you make 4k.If you play it at a rebate site,you get what? 4k + 7% of 2K bet($140)=$4,140 profit.This is not enough to make a living.To make a living,you need to find an exchange,and get that profit(for this 1 weekly bet) to the 5k range.That means getting your $2 payoff to $7(atleast) while others get $6.00.

Profit at track=$4,000

Profit at rebate site=$4,140

Profit at an exchange(if you get a $7 payoff on a track 2-1 shot)=$5k

You need to get paid more(while taking the same risk of losing that somebody betting track odds takes.)

what do you do, design video games?
that avatar is very offensive
I'm surprised timmhasn't PM'ed you
I've though about it, but thought better of it

I think very few of them bet even a reasonably significant amount and almost all lose. You are making a mistake if you consider these people expert handicappers....in general.

It's about understanding how to win....and few people do.