Sire lines on Polytrack
 

It was brought to my attention that results during the Keeneland meet are in. It was stated that there was 136 races on poly. Of those 136 races, the stallions with the most winners are as follows--

Tale of the Cat-- 4 winners
Grand Slam-- 3
Smart Strike-- 3
Skip Away-- 3
Storm Creek-- 3
Rahy-- 3
El Corredor-- 3

With the theory that turf runners do better on the polytrack, these results are interesting. As its been stated before, anything from the Storm Cat line and Mr. Prospector/Gone West line had to be expected to fair well on the poly since they tend to do well on the turf. Further more, its a no brainer that Rahy would do well being a Blushing Groom line stallion and having produced top turf runners.

Breaking down the the list... you have Tale of the Cat, Storm Creek falling into the Storm Cat line, El Corredor, Grand Slam falling into the Gone West line, and Smart Strike falling into the Mr. Prospector line. The only stallion that doesnt fit the mold is Skip Away, who has been throwing very versatile foals from the start.

So 6 out of the 7 stallions with the best polytrack results all excell at producing foals who are either more turf than dirt, or who handle the two surfaces equally well. Some interesting food for thought with a very limited sampling.

Smart Strike... sire of the soon to be Breeders Cup Turf champ, English Channel. :D

did you compile that list yourself or was it pulished some place? I am curious about the numbers of runners each of those sires had in the races...it would stand to reason that a horse like grand slam would have far more entries than rahy or skippy...thus making their 3 winners perhaps more significant. I had noticed Skip Away seemed to be doing well on the poly and was pleased to no end since he was one of my favorites on that track and has been less than dominant in the shed.

I didnt compile it... I got it off a friend who had made the list. I took it at face value and found the results to be at least interesting. I would imagine though that the Hill n Dale and Ashford stallions had more runners...

Skip Away is a real solid stallion. Im hoping to get a daughter of his in November. She's on my radar.

It should also probably be noted that Buddy Got Even by Stephen Got Even and Pyramid Love by Fusaichi Pegasus both won twice during the meet and they were counted as "one win" for each of their sires.

it is interesting. Hope you get that daughter. Skip Away does well from limited opportunity, but he gets little respect IMO.

Yeah, im looking for him to be a good broodmare sire too. I like the versatility he brings to a pedigree, not to mention the soundness. If nothing else i'll take some pics of her and she gets out of my budget (which is probably likely) and share them with you. We can reminisce together! :o

I took a mare over to hopewell a couple of years ago (for another horse) and they let me go back and say hi and feed him mints...it was a huge thrill, even if he has gone all white and lost that gorgeous dappled color from when he was running.

Interesting... with their results you see the same two sire-lines repeated as well. Will there be a bigger line to anything Storm Cat and Gone West???

It will be very interesting to watch. I know I was voicing concerns as a breeder that any foal bred this coming spring wont be racing until 2010 at the earliest and by that time, most tracks will more than likely be polytracks. Its extremely important for breeders, especially smaller breeders, to try to find a trend now and hope that it stays true by the time your foals hit the track. Its such a strange time for the industry, especially for breeders. I really do think this will be a big change for most.

A poster here that is in the breeding business said there are numerous different types of synthetic surfaces and they have been racing on them for years outside the United States. This isn't new stuff. How can you make any decisions on "poly" based off a 17 day meet. How about Turfways numbers. Do just Keeneland's count? That would be ridiculous.

What about Steve Byk's theory and others who said Keeneland has more to do with the way they set up the track than the poly?

Based on the sires you listed, it means nothing. Those sires produce winners because they are the top sires. The sample is so small and it doesn't mention if these sires just had more horses run.

It would be crazy to change the way one spends millions of dollars choosing stallions to even consider the synthetic surfaces right now. They all are going to play differently, just like dirt tracks do.

Yeah because it's crazy to take a chance. :rolleyes:

Fortune favors the bold.

No one is saying change your breeding methods by looking at 2 weeks worth of results. The point was its something every breeder should be looking at.

No, polytrack isnt "new" to the world. There are all-weather tracks all over Europe... but its new to North America and the majority of our dirt stallions.

Furthermore, those "top" stallions on the list are also good to great turf stallions. Thats the point that was being drawn from the results. Horses who can produce versatile runners on either surface seem to be reaping some success on the polytrack.

And these numbers are very limited... there's not enough info around to make a safe judgement, but it would be ridiculous to not pay attention and keep a tally of whats going on.

Until you can put your money where your mouth is and feel 100% confident that polytrack will have no impact on the foal you breed and the future worth of your mare, I wouldnt be so quick to jump into conversations balls out when the point of the whole topic is to keep a tally of possible outcomes and results not to make a definitive conclusion off two weeks worth of results.

Not when breeding horses it doesn't.

I thought you were basing this on the belief that turf runners do better on poly, which is simply not true. There is no proof of this anywhere.

There are two or three horses that showed this and it could simply be those horses don't like the kickback on dirt, and with the poly they don't have to deal with it.

It is much more likely that track configuration and the role of kickback are at play here, not the breeding.

Its too early to tell if the track favors turf runners or not... but I will say EARLY results show that stallions who sire versatile runners seem to be doing the best on this surface. I think that says a lot... but again, the results are very limited.

From what I understand from my family's trainer at Keeneland, the actual substance is turf like in the give and cut. The fields are also playing a lot more like turf races. Does this mean turf breeding will do better on it? We dont know yet... but with early results in, its telling that the best results come from stallions who can get a good turf runner. Each one of the stallions listed are better than "good" hidden turf stallions.

Yup... Catienus.
Have a look at him at the High Cliff site off nybreds.com...their link is on the right side. I have had many dealings with this farm.
Doc O'Cain is very helpful. He takes a lot of time to explain.
They stand some very good ones there.
Catienus contibuted the Storm Cat genes to NY. Anyone remember Nolan's Cat?
They also stand Kelly Kip there. Total quality.
I might just be a bit "predjudiced" cause I have one in foal to Best of Luck.
And the grey filly by Stanislavky ( weaned) is very gorgeous.
Have a look at their stallions. Peds too.
They have bent over backwards for me.
I'm so appreciative of their quality operation.
Go Flying Zee!!

Nice folks, so nice to find them.

DTS

Nolan's Cat is one of those horses that I bet every time because I liked him sentimentally. LOL :D