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-   -   another hit piece (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60517)

Benny 07-14-2016 07:06 AM

another hit piece
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...7a0_story.html

Kasept 07-14-2016 07:43 AM

Very strange treatment that swings wildly from bug-eyed hysterics to reasonable, even positive, evaluation of industry efforts to minimize industry and fatality.

Benny 07-14-2016 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 1069332)
Very strange treatment that swings wildly from bug-eyed hysterics to reasonable, even positive, evaluation of industry efforts to minimize industry and fatality.

Yes, kind of bipolar,piece,i almost stopped reading it, before skimming the latter section.

Hapman 07-14-2016 12:14 PM

These pieces ALWAYS seem to leave out the fact that horses can injure themselves out in a field or in a myriad of other ways that isn't in a race.

While there are many problems in the industry and some sleazy people out there, I feel like these articles always try to imply that somehow a horse running is inherently cruel or the horses are being forced to do something they don't like to do (run).

Kasept 07-14-2016 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hapman (Post 1069344)
These pieces ALWAYS seem to leave out the fact that horses can injure themselves out in a field or in a myriad of other ways that isn't in a race.

While there are many problems in the industry and some sleazy people out there, I feel like these articles always try to imply that somehow a horse running is inherently cruel or the horses are being forced to do something they don't like to do (run).

The answer to the 'animals ahead of humans' activists has to be firm, uniform and unwavering: This is an industry sustained by lifestyle careers employing 100's of 1,000's of people, generating hundreds of millions of dollars in job income and tax revenue. No other elaboration is necessary.

ateamstupid 07-14-2016 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 1069349)
The answer to the 'animals ahead of humans' activists has to be firm, uniform and unwavering: This is an industry sustained by lifestyle careers employing 100's of 1,000's of people, generating hundreds of millions of dollars in job income and tax revenue. No other elaboration is necessary.

I don't know that "it makes money for people" is going to ever be a satisfying answer for people who think the sport is inherently cruel.

Dawgswin 07-14-2016 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 1069349)
The answer to the 'animals ahead of humans' activists has to be firm, uniform and unwavering: This is an industry sustained by lifestyle careers employing 100's of 1,000's of people, generating hundreds of millions of dollars in job income and tax revenue. No other elaboration is necessary.

This argument has not worked for "clean coal," fracking, Walmart, feed lots or any issue you could name that has used it. Yes....those things still exist but public sentiment has only grown more negative.

You're using a lawyer's playbook on critical communications. And it never works.

Kasept 07-14-2016 08:15 PM

I disagree. Business entities/industries that damage the environment or economic balance of communities are not in the same arena as something that is offending sensibilities.

Dawgswin 07-14-2016 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 1069390)
I disagree. Business entities/industries that damage the environment or economic balance of communities are not in the same arena as something that is offending sensibilities.

Steve do you honestly believe the vast majority of the general public makes a distinction of moral hierarchy among something they think hurts the environment, something they think hurts poor people/workers, or something they think hurts animals?

Kasept 07-15-2016 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgswin (Post 1069394)
Steve do you honestly believe the vast majority of the general public makes a distinction of moral hierarchy among something they think hurts the environment, something they think hurts poor people/workers, or something they think hurts animals?

Gosh.. I sure hope so. If you asked people to rank the 3 in order of importance, you'd like to think humanity comes first with environment/animals in a photo for second. If you asked people to prioritize which use of animals is most egregious, isn't raising animals for consumption far more horrific than raising them for sport and pleasure? 1,000 horses may die in competition a year. 29,000,000 cows and calves died last year for burgers and veal parm.

OldDog 07-15-2016 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 1069399)
Gosh.. I sure hope so. If you asked people to rank the 3 in order of importance, you'd like to think humanity comes first with environment/animals in a photo for second. If you asked people to prioritize which use of animals is most egregious, isn't raising animals for consumption far more horrific than raising them for sport and pleasure? 1,000 horses may die in competition a year. 29,000,000 cows and calves died last year for burgers and veal parm.

Well said.

Dawgswin 07-15-2016 09:04 AM

I'm not saying your logic is flawed Steve, because I would hope so too. But people don't. More charitable dollars are spent here in Las Vegas on homeless pets than on homeless children. Also more than the two relatively stable domestic violence shelters. By a multiple of at least two.

It is merely about what is the "latest and loudest" and it is entirely conceivable that horse racing is banned in a state long before Walmart pays a living wage or whatever arbitrary measure of fairness people come up with.

Danzig 07-15-2016 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgswin (Post 1069406)
I'm not saying your logic is flawed Steve, because I would hope so too. But people don't. More charitable dollars are spent here in Las Vegas on homeless pets than on homeless children. Also more than the two relatively stable domestic violence shelters. By a multiple of at least two.

It is merely about what is the "latest and loudest" and it is entirely conceivable that horse racing is banned in a state long before Walmart pays a living wage or whatever arbitrary measure of fairness people come up with.

except many rich people own racehorses. they're quite good at keeping things as they wish

jms62 07-15-2016 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgswin (Post 1069406)
I'm not saying your logic is flawed Steve, because I would hope so too. But people don't. More charitable dollars are spent here in Las Vegas on homeless pets than on homeless children. Also more than the two relatively stable domestic violence shelters. By a multiple of at least two.

It is merely about what is the "latest and loudest" and it is entirely conceivable that horse racing is banned in a state long before Walmart pays a living wage or whatever arbitrary measure of fairness people come up with.

Aren't we already "donating" to these shelters via our tax dollars.

Hapman 07-15-2016 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 1069388)
I don't know that "it makes money for people" is going to ever be a satisfying answer for people who think the sport is inherently cruel.

I agree.

The response of "it creates jobs" is not going to convince any activist to change their mind. They are misinformed or ignorant of horses in general and simply see some internet piece like this and conclude that horse racing= cruelty to animals.

Dawgswin 07-15-2016 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 1069411)
Aren't we already "donating" to these shelters via our tax dollars.

Yes. And you're also donating toward animal shelter usually through tax dollars, and wildlife preserves. And subsidizing child care, so what? I am speaking about private dollars.

Dawgswin 07-15-2016 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 1069409)
except many rich people own racehorses. they're quite good at keeping things as they wish

Do me a favor, if you are so inclined. Do some brief research on how often a ballot initiative in any state billed as protecting animals from cruelty has been defeated.

Danzig 07-15-2016 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgswin (Post 1069548)
Do me a favor, if you are so inclined. Do some brief research on how often a ballot initiative in any state billed as protecting animals from cruelty has been defeated.

I am not so inclined. It is not exactly easy to get an initiative on a ballot. Takes a lot of work to get an initiative on a ballot, and i can just image someone in ky trying to get enough votes to get a ban horse racing initiative approved.
Steve byk knows quite a bit about the state of racing. Until he gets worried, i see no reason to get excited.

Dawgswin 07-16-2016 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 1069553)
I am not so inclined. It is not exactly easy to get an initiative on a ballot. Takes a lot of work to get an initiative on a ballot, and i can just image someone in ky trying to get enough votes to get a ban horse racing initiative approved.
Steve byk knows quite a bit about the state of racing. Until he gets worried, i see no reason to get excited.


Steve Byk knows more about the horse racing industry than I ever will. His suggested argument against those that believe horse racing is cruel is misguided and lacks perspective. This I know a bit about.

Who is excited?

Kasept 07-16-2016 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgswin (Post 1069621)
Steve Byk knows more about the horse racing industry than I ever will. His suggested argument against those that believe horse racing is cruel is misguided and lacks perspective. This I know a bit about.

Who is excited?

Having just watched Concussion, I think it's fair to say that racing as an industry has been better to its' athletes than the NFL has been to theirs.

I'm confident that presenting the sport as a socially productive way of life is quite viable. But since I lack perspective, please inform as to what the better defense might be.


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