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-   -   Police attacked this person because: (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44843)

Riot 12-13-2011 11:18 AM
Police attacked this person because:
 
Police attacked this citizen, grabbing him from behind, and hauling him off for arrest, because:

A. Livestreaming police abuse makes the police nervous.
B. Eliminating freedom of the press enables the state to have more control over citizens.
C. Hipster glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=rcprvmc4WoI#

Quote:
the NYPD aggressively targets people holding cameras, arresting five OWS photographers and videographers, and one New York Times reporter.

MaTH716 12-13-2011 11:28 AM
Is the World Financial Center private property?

Riot 12-13-2011 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 824758)
Is the World Financial Center private property?
Yes, and everyone there was being moved out. The police were pushing them back to the doors by making a line and just telling people to move back to the doors. The people were moving.

Do you not find it very disturbing that an American citizen, who was there to livestream and not protest, was being pushed back by police from the front, and following those instructions by moving backwards, yet was grabbed from behind, thrown to the floor, aggressively restrained, and hauled off arrested?

Why was this passive, non-violent person picked out of the crowd? He was complying, right? What was he doing that required a policeman grabbing him - and nobody else - from behind and throwing him violently to the floor?

Would you like it if it happened to you? Do you think your rights give you freedom of the press? And freedom from excessive police force when you are complying with their commands?

Do you think the police have the right to command you to do things not enshrined in law? Can the police be violent goons? Thugs? Do citizens still have any rights, protections, or are the police departments indeed "Bloomberg's army", as he brags?

Glad the US government comes out to defend the peaceful protesters in the middle east from government violence.

It seems that more and more in the United States, citizens can only protest where and when the government decides to allow it.

MaTH716 12-13-2011 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 824760)
Yes, and everyone there was being moved out. The police were pushing them back to the doors.

Do you not find it very disturbing that an American citizen, who was there to livestream and not protest, was being pushed back by police from the front, and following those instructions by moving backwards, yet was grabbed from behind, thrown to the floor, aggressively restrained, and hauled off arrested?

Glad the US government comes out to defend the peaceful protesters in the middle east from government violence.
But if he was there to livestream, isn't he in essence with the group protesting?

If that video is the 100% true story of what happened, yes then it's a bit disturbing. But how do any of us really know that? Maybe that guy is one of the key figures of the movement and is wanted for organizing the whole thing. I just think that there is more to these videos than what's posted.

I find it funny how quickly someone grabbed his computer and phone away from him. I'm guessing that there was some good stuff on it.

Riot 12-13-2011 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 824762)
But if he was there to livestream, isn't he in essence with the group protesting?
No. There are laws, federal, international, and even within NYC, protecting the free press's right to be immediate to police action. In NYC press are allowed to be no closer than 3 feet to arrests, police action, etc.

That is why the press has protested to Mayor Bloomberg, as so many reporters and legal advisers on scenes have been arrested, and the press has been shoved back blocks from any police actions.

A NY Times reporter, with press credentials displayed, was also targeted and arrested here.

Quote:
If that video is the 100% true story of what happened, yes then it's a bit disturbing. But how do any of us really know that? Maybe that guy is one of the key figures of the movement and is wanted for organizing the whole thing. I just think that there is more to these videos than what's posted.
It is scary to think that what you just witnessed is true in the US. So scary that we hope and think there must be a different explaination or mitigating circumstances.

Riot 12-13-2011 12:06 PM
New York Times
 
Can't post the whole article here, of course, but please click and read the entire thing, it's about a page long:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/ny...and-fists.html

New York Times - Gotham
Reporters Meet the Fists of the Law
By MICHAEL POWELL
Published: November 21, 2011

Quote:
In the aftermath of the Occupy Wall Street eviction from Zuccotti Park, a mayoral aide e-mailed reporters.

The aide, Stu Loeser, said that he had heard of journalists “supposedly” wearing police press badges who “allegedly encountered problems on the streets of New York.”

As I sling nouns and verbs for a living, I almost admired his artful euphemisms. A less refined sort might phrase it this way:

Over several days, New York cops have arrested, punched, whacked, shoved to the ground and tossed a barrier at reporters and photographers.

... snip ...

Reporters with The Associated Press and The Daily News were arrested while taking notes. A radio reporter was arrested as she recorded several blocks from the park.

... snip ...

Another truth co-exists. At least since the Republican National Convention of 2004, our police have grown accustomed to forcibly penning, arresting, and sometimes spraying and whacking protesters and reporters.

.. snip ...

Their letter offered five examples. I’ll mention one: As the police carried off a young protester whose head was covered in a crown of blood, a photographer stood behind a metal barricade and raised his camera. Two officers ran at him, grabbed the barrier and struck him in the chest, knees and shins. You are not permitted, the police yelled, to photograph on the sidewalk.

... snip ...

There is another problem: a police pass has become a ticket for a quick removal. My Times colleague Colin Moynihan stood on that darkened square last Tuesday morning when a police spokesman shouted, “Who has press credentials?”

Many reporters and photographers dutifully raised their hands. With that, the police removed the “credentialed” reporters, under threat of arrest, to a press pen, out of sight of the square. Only shouts and yells could be heard.

E-mail: powellm@nytimes.com

MaTH716 12-13-2011 12:14 PM
The guy that was streaming from OWS, he's considered free press? I would think that if he's covering a protest/event for the group who's protesting illegally, then he would fall in to that category as well.

Is there a video of the Times reporter being arrested?

Were all the protesters arrested or did they just let them go free?

I actually saw them marching towards the Finacial Center yesterday, the cops just pretty much escorted them and let them do their buisness.

It's unfortunate, but I'm guessing at a certain point some things have to been done forcefully. The OWS protesters probably don't respond very well with all the singing and dancing going on, to police asking them to vacate the premises, even if they say "pretty please with sugar on top". I guess at some point force is needed and sometimes innocent people get caught up in the mess.

Riot 12-13-2011 01:54 PM
Irony alert:

Quote:
State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said that the United States supported the right to peaceful protest in Russia as it does "anywhere in the world."

"We expect that those demonstrations will remain peaceful on behalf of all parties, whether they're the demonstrators or whether they are those keeping social order," she said.

"So our expectation is that if there are protests, that they will be peaceful and that they will be allowed to proceed peacefully," Nuland said.
Quote:
# UPDATE: Twitter is reportedly blocked in Egypt itself right now, however. More details on that here. UPDATE 2: There are workarounds, however.
# Looking for live video? You can watch Al Jazeera English live on the web. Better, perhaps, is the video feed from cairowitness, who has set up a webcam downtown in Cairo, Egypt's bustling capital. (UPDATE: That video feed is down.) Hillary Clinton just spoke. Highlights: US "very concerned" about the crackdown, protesters should refrain from violence. We support universal human rights, urges Egyptian government to allow peaceful protests and reverse cutoff of communications.

Riot 12-13-2011 02:01 PM
Tracking journalists arrested during Occupy
http://storify.com/jcstearns/trackin...he-occupy-prot

Quote:
Video Shows LAPD Gave Inaccurate Account of Local Reporter's Arrest During Occupy LA Raid

A journalist with City News Service was among the nearly 300 people arrested in the wee hours of November 30, when the Los Angeles Police Department raided the Occupy LA encampment at City Hall.

Now video showing the arrest as it happened seems to contradict the LAPD's version of what went down, and an internal affairs investigation has been launched.

The arrest was revealed by LA Weekly, who refer to the journalist in question, Calvin Milam, as a female. The report in the Weekly also indicates the LAPD's Cpt. Andy Smith claimed Milam "did not appear to be working, might have been drunk, and was allegedly 'belligerent' when police clearing out the City Hall encampment confronted him and told him to leave."

However, as The City Maven reports, video posted to The Occupied Venice Journal shows the arrest, and counters what Smith said on record about Milam prior to his take down by the LAPD. Here's what is in the video:

http://laist.com/2011/12/13/lapd_inv...f_local_re.php

Riot 12-13-2011 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 824769)
It's unfortunate, but I'm guessing at a certain point some things have to been done forcefully.
Like if a bunch of people were lining the street where the President was going to arrive and speak, were chanting and yelling, and opening carrying guns and holding signs saying the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots.

Or Westboro Baptist Morons were screaming hate obscenities at the family during a soldiers funeral.

Or the Klu Klux Klan was marching downtown carrying signs calling for white supremacy and punishment for mixing races.

MaTH716 12-13-2011 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 824789)
Like if a bunch of people were lining the street where the President was going to arrive and speak, were chanting and yelling, and opening carrying guns and holding signs saying the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots.

Or Westboro Baptist Morons were screaming hate obscenities at the family during a soldiers funeral.

Or the Klu Klux Klan was marching downtown carrying signs calling for white supremacy and punishment for mixing races.
And your point is?

Riot 12-13-2011 02:35 PM
Interview with sister of guy in the above video

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/13/busted_for_tweeting/

Busted for Tweeting
Police escalation in New York as my brother and 17 other people are arrested for observing an occupation

Quote:
That was when everything escalated completely out of control. The escalator was stopped. Suddenly, the outer circle of cops was swarming in and violently pushing people away. John had been standing near the crowd, taking video. I was about twenty feet from him, and when I looked back in his direction, I saw his blue hood on the ground. I ran towards him and slid to the ground, leaning in between people’s knees to take pictures. John was face down on the ground being handcuffed, his glasses flung across the floor and people screaming, “Stop, stop, he didn’t do anything!”

A cop pulled me up by my shoulders and told me to step back. I said, “He’s my brother.” Several cops pushed me away as I asked, “What is he being arrested for? He was taking pictures.” A cop said, “He didn’t produce an official press pass, so that means he was resisting arrest.” I quite literally didn’t understand, so I said, “What?” At that point, the same cop said, “If you don’t step back immediately, you will be arrested too.”

I was pushed behind a line of police. I stood there, several inches from them, and heard myself saying, “Why are you doing this?”

A protester next to me was yelling at the cops, something about free speech or unnecessary force or any number of logical things to say at a time like this, I was too distracted to pay attention. But then, an officer said to him, “Get out of my face. I have a gun, and I don’t need people up in my face like this.”

Riot 12-13-2011 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 824792)
And your point is?
Clearly the peaceful American citizen standing there videotaping, moving back as the policeman asked him to, was more of a threat than those above I mentioned, and justified a cop coming up behind him, throwing him to the marble floor, stripping off his shoes/coat/backpack, sitting on his throat with four other cops, and arresting him for .... ?

The American right to peacefully protest is not related to one's cause, or one's public support, nor does it need permission from the government.

MaTH716 12-13-2011 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 824795)
Clearly the peaceful American citizen standing there videotaping, moving back as the policeman asked him to, was more of a threat than those above I mentioned, and justified a cop coming up behind him, throwing him to the marble floor, stripping off his shoes/coat/backpack, sitting on his throat with four other cops, and arresting him for .... ?

The American right to peacefully protest is not related to one's cause, or one's public support, nor does it need permission from the government.
How do you know what was going on during the sequance before he was arrested, were you there? The video obviously jumps from the singing and dancing to about 5 seconds before the arrest, there is a definite gap there. Is it possible that something went on that made the police react that way? I wasn't there, so I don't know. I think it's a logical question though. Is it possible that the police picked him up for something else? At the time of the arrest, it seemed like they were on the back end of breaking up the illegal protest on private property and this person didn't seem to be leaving the scene. So is it 100% out of the realm of possibility that something happened involving this guy, that wasn't seen on the video? Or is this out of the question, because OWS would never post some sort of distorted video to make the police look bad and we believe everything they say and post.

As far as your last quote goes, you're right, but in this case they were on private property. So were they all arrested, or did they let the majority of the people go? If they let them go, where are the video's of the police not arresting people who just broke the law?

Riot 12-13-2011 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 824811)
How do you know what was going on during the sequance before he was arrested, were you there? The video obviously jumps from the singing and dancing to about 5 seconds before the arrest, there is a definite gap there. Is it possible that something went on that made the police react that way?
Yeah. I'm guessing it was live-streaming the police over his computer stream.
Quote:
I wasn't there, so I don't know. I think it's a logical question though. Is it possible that the police picked him up for something else? At the time of the arrest, it seemed like they were on the back end of breaking up the illegal protest on private property and this person didn't seem to be leaving the scene.
Really? Backing towards the door as the policeman asks him to, moving right out of the policeman's way as asked, isn't "leaving"?

And is cause for another policeman to weave through the crowd, and grab him from behind and throw him to the floor?

All the while he is completely passive, and shows no resistance? And the crowd is shouting, "What did he do?"

Quote:
So is it 100% out of the realm of possibility that something happened involving this guy, that wasn't seen on the video? Or is this out of the question, because OWS would never post some sort of distorted video to make the police look bad and we believe everything they say and post.
I'm sure this was just a big plot for those evil lawbreakers to try and fool us. The sister who wrote the Salon article is probably lying, too.

Quote:
As far as your last quote goes, you're right, but in this case they were on private property. So were they all arrested, or did they let the majority of the people go? If they let them go, where are the video's of the police not arresting people who just broke the law?
They only arrested the five with cameras, and the reporter. Everyone else was just pushed out the door as per the end of the video.

Riot 12-13-2011 07:01 PM
This article says nearly 20 were arrested, and the response from the NY Times over the police treatment of their credentialed reporter:

Video: NYPD Blocks NY Times Photographer From OWS Arrests
http://gothamist.com/2011/12/12/vide...ialed_phot.php This includes another view of the arrest, above, and the police coming after the NYTimes Photog, too (his NYPD issued press pass clearly visible and worn as it should be)

Quote:
[UPDATE] Andy Newman, City Room's bureau chief, has confirmed that the photographer is in fact freelancer Robert Stolarik and that he was working for the Times this morning. We asked the Times if they plan on releasing a statement regarding the incident in light of a letter the paper signed, along with many other New York media outlets, condemning the NYPD's treatment of the press during Occupy Wall Street.

NYT says: "The directive Commissioner Kelly issued reiterated that the police are not supposed to be interfering with the media’s ability to do their job and cover newsworthy events. We are disappointed that it seems, in this instance, not to have been followed or implemented on the ground."
This is the story the reporter filed on the story. He describes excessive force and 10 men 7 women arrested:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...etro&seid=auto

timmgirvan 12-14-2011 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot (Post 824760)
Yes, and everyone there was being moved out. The police were pushing them back to the doors by making a line and just telling people to move back to the doors. The people were moving.

Do you not find it very disturbing that an American citizen, who was there to livestream and not protest, was being pushed back by police from the front, and following those instructions by moving backwards, yet was grabbed from behind, thrown to the floor, aggressively restrained, and hauled off arrested?

Why was this passive, non-violent person picked out of the crowd? He was complying, right? What was he doing that required a policeman grabbing him - and nobody else - from behind and throwing him violently to the floor?

Would you like it if it happened to you? Do you think your rights give you freedom of the press? And freedom from excessive police force when you are complying with their commands?

Do you think the police have the right to command you to do things not enshrined in law? Can the police be violent goons? Thugs? Do citizens still have any rights, protections, or are the police departments indeed "Bloomberg's army", as he brags?

Glad the US government comes out to defend the peaceful protesters in the middle east from government violence.

It seems that more and more in the United States, citizens can only protest where and when the government decides to allow it.
thats YOUR big govt for you!!

Riot 12-14-2011 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmgirvan (Post 824945)
thats YOUR big govt for you!!
That's YOUR government, too.

Stop pretending politics is like cheering on a sports team.


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