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-   -   Please Close Delaware Park (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22008)

mik9872 04-29-2008 08:19 AM

Please Close Delaware Park
 
Please but this grand old track out of its misery. Today, a new low. FIVE races. One of the Arabian

slotdirt 04-29-2008 08:41 AM

Why? Delaware Park is one of the nicer parks to visit in the greater mid-Atlantic area.

docicu3 04-29-2008 08:42 AM

I was feeling initially the same but I think it would be prudent to wait until Delaware gets a chance fill it's barns with the typical influx of Florida horses that come north to spring in Newark/Wilmington then to summer toward Saratoga and the other surrounding meets.

The vibe (gossip) at the track has been that the guy writing races has irritated the horsemen to such an extent that long standing high volume trainers are initially staying away.

Delaware Park is a much better facility than anything Maryland has and the simulcast area added last year is one of the best in the country. The problem is "Gulfstream" disease where the management has forgotten that a successful raceino requires that you actually have horses willing to run there.

I am hopeful it gets straightened out as this track actually has far more racing fans that frequent it than Laurel would ever have.

Scav 04-29-2008 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik9872
Please but this grand old track out of its misery. Today, a new low. FIVE races. One of the Arabian

This is pretty hilarious, you would think that it would cost more to open up when run 5 races.....

blackthroatedwind 04-29-2008 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
This is pretty hilarious, you would think that it would cost more to open up when run 5 races.....


They are open for slots regardless.

Delaware is a beautiful track and a great place to spend the day. That being said, I have to wonder how much they are now falling victim to their specific years old program of essentially running a closed club for the few trainers that populated the place. They have basically discouraged outsiders, denying stalls or awarding few stalls to some who wanted to race there, in an attempt to distribute the purses to a very few. Many believe this was a somewhat backroom deal to appease the local horsemen so that they would not campaign for a bigger or better cut of the slot dollars through purses.

You reap what you sow.

Scav 04-29-2008 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You reap what you sow.

Unfortunetly that seems like the industry motto right now

You have been around a long time :) so you gone through bad and good within the industry, what is your opinion on what is going on with the ADW mess and Tracknet???

ShadowRoll 04-29-2008 12:26 PM

They've pumped an awful lot of money into the facility -- you'll be impressed if you've never been there before. However, the small fields and large number of scratches are terrible. I always go to opening day, including this year, but never again. If you wait until around DelCap weekend, on the other hand, the Florida and Maryland horses will have returned and they'll start to have larger, more competitive fields again (I hope).

Cannon Shell 04-29-2008 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav
Unfortunetly that seems like the industry motto right now

You have been around a long time :) so you gone through bad and good within the industry, what is your opinion on what is going on with the ADW mess and Tracknet???

Not answering for Andy but his first comment has a lot to do with this

Scav 04-29-2008 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Not answering for Andy but his first comment has a lot to do with this

I know, and I guess simucasting is still fairly new to the industry.

I just get the feeling, in regards to the industry, that new ideas, new innovations are not carefully planned out or tested.

I'll give you an example, Arlington has these new tote machines that are cashless, how much you want to bet that these machines are absolutely the most ridiculous things ever and cause all sorts of problems.

I would rather have a ticket as proof and then I can calculate exactly what I am getting, and then go up to the tell and get hosed on the 2% winning ticket takeout....

mes5107 04-29-2008 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Not answering for Andy but his first comment has a lot to do with this

Chuck, I would love to hear your comments on the CDI/THG battle being waged. From what I hear, the horsemen are asking for 1/3 of gross takeout from ADW providers, but the ADW's seem to be saying this is not economically feasible.

I'm not completely clear on the details, so I'm not sure if you're on the front lines, or know anybody who is.

Scav 04-29-2008 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
It might take a couple of years, but they will be accepted. And the lines are shorter than going to humans, because the old, old timers do not use the machines.

Actually Arlington draws quite the older crowd. They are not too much of the problem, they just sit outside and go to the outside machines. Arlington's issue is dealing with the newly turned 18 year old that is trying to bet for the first time, but luckily we have $100 windows (like most tracks)

Cannon Shell 04-29-2008 01:39 PM

Letter to Horsemen from Rick Hiles, President KHBPA.



Recently, I am sure you have heard rumblings about our decision not to send the simulcast signal to the various advanced deposit wagering companies until horsemen receive a more equitable share of the revenue. This decision was reached after careful consideration regarding the overall health of the racing industry.



To every horseman it is all too familiar. “Handle is up, yet purses to decline.”



If a racing jurisdiction has not been fortunate enough to pass legislation providing a supplement to purses from slot revenues, inevitably purses will remain stagnant or decrease.



Quite often we are asked to explain how wagering can substantially increase while purses do not keep pace. It is simply due to the changing betting patterns of the wagering public. Where once people interested in betting came to the racetracks to watch and wager on horses, now for the most part they bet from remote locations or via the computer.



Initially, horsemen and racetracks were encouraged with the broader distribution of the racing product. Eventually, horsemen began to notice an alarming trend, the influx in betting did not result in appreciable purse increases. The dramatic handle increases from remote off track locations where horsemen do not receive an equitable share of wagering has created quite a dilemma.



Most notably, advanced deposit wagering (ADWs) companies, an innovative concept where betting patrons are encouraged to wager via the internet or by phone and view the races on television is the fastest growing segment of the racing industry.



Since its inception, ADWs recognized the distinct possibility that there would be a significant downturn in wagering at racetracks. Early on they initiated “bettor poaching fees,” later referred to as “source market fees,” to address the erosion of betting at the racetrack where horsemen receive a larger share of the wagering dollar. Later ADWs decided to increase the host fees as opposed to source market fees, but in the end while ADWs enjoyed immense profits from siphoning off betting patrons at the racetrack, horsemen continued to experience a decline in purses.



Experts continue to lament that the model is broke, but no one seems to have an answer on how it should be fixed. Exacerbating the problem is that now several racetracks have entered into the national ADW business. Therefore, while the ADWs flourish and racetracks profit from their ownership of the ADWs, horsemen’s problems with a lower share of the wagering dollar are compounded. With this backdrop, horsemen have decided that the time has come to restructure the model to assure that horsemen are receiving an equitable share of wagering revenue.



It was never our intention to alienate the betting public, we are simply attempting to assure that horsemen can continue to provide the quality of racing with reasonable purses that everyone richly deserves.







Rick Hiles

mes5107 04-29-2008 01:57 PM

Thanks Chuck. So basically, the major ADW's need to completely change the way they are structured. It sounds like this will certainly not clear up before this weekend.

phystech 04-29-2008 02:34 PM

Back to discussing Delaware Park....

From an owner's standpoint, there's good and bad in dealing with the small fields.

Good - there's fewer horses to beat and if you are shippiing in, there's a better chance you'll at least get enough of a check to cover the van ride even if you run in the crapper. Granted, for years Delpark has given an entry "bonus" to every starter, but with gas going UP, that bonus doesn't cover van costs anymore.

Bad - there's fewer spots to run your horses so it is tougher getting into races.

In addition to the possible problems related to Del's steroid ban, Delpark has always made it difficult to claim horses. If I started a new partnership today, and I was a licensed owner anywhere in the past year, I could not claim at Delpark for the new partnership. But, if I hadn't been licensed anywhere for the last year, I could come in as a "new" owner and be granted a claiming license.

By the same token, if I am a MD owner and I run on the last day of Pimlico's spring meet, and lose my horse to claim, I can't claim at Delpark for the whole summer because I am not a "new" owner, nor have I started a horse there. Delpark's rules say you have to have started a horse before you can claim.

If you are short on horses, the best way to grow your horse population is to get more owners involved. Delpark does everything it can to prevent owners from getting involved.

blackthroatedwind 04-29-2008 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mes5107
Thanks Chuck. So basically, the major ADW's need to completely change the way they are structured. It sounds like this will certainly not clear up before this weekend.

That letter is one man's opinion of the situation....and in some ways a distortion of the truth.

Cannon Shell 04-29-2008 02:41 PM

THOROUGHBRED HORSEMEN’S

GROUP, LLC


PURPOSE OF COMPANY



The Thoroughbred racing industry is changing. Thoroughbred racetracks are consolidating under common ownership as in the case of Magna, Churchill, Penn National, MTR Gaming and Harrah’s and most racetracks are now owned by publicly held corporations whose strategic interests may extend far beyond the business of horseracing. Moreover, Thoroughbred horse racing’s wagering network-the principal source of horsemen’s purse revenue-continues to evolve rapidly beyond horsemen’s traditional spheres of influence.

Where is the good news for the Horsemen? For the first time, a nationally recognized antitrust law firm has advised us that horsemen can legally collaborate when dealing with these companies: forming a separate legal entity for this purpose limits our antitrust exposure to an acceptable level.

The Company will be operated on a break-even basis and funded only to the extent to cover accounting, legal, managerial costs and possibly some of the costs of Member meeting expenses. Funding will initially come from Member contributions but will be changed to a small percentage of purse revenue generated pursuant to the agreements it negotiates as soon as such agreements are finalized.

What would the Company do for its Members?

¨ Negotiate - within parameters set by its Members - with the multi-jurisdictional racetrack companies regarding contractual terms and purse revenue with respect to both imported and exported simulcast races.
¨ Secure export authorization from its Members and relay to appropriate party on agreed export terms and conditions.
¨ Act as a clearinghouse for the collection and redistribution of certain funds, such as Source Market Fees from Advance Deposit Wagering companies, as directed by its Members.
¨ Serve as a liaison between its Members and other entities to achieve transparency of handle and distribution of takeout.
¨ Act as a resource for its Members performing due diligence on all export sites requesting permission to wager on Members’ races.

Our main goal is to be less dependent on racetracks to negotiate, collect and distribute our simulcast purse revenue. By collectively hiring and directing professional management, that no single association could likely afford or justify, horsemen and their associations can achieve greater influence and self-sufficiency in simulcasting matters.

Under the prevailing simulcast model, host tracks and betting agencies negotiate “host fees” paid by the betting agencies to the host tracks (which then share those host fees with their purse accounts). In certain cases advance deposit wagering companies pay “source market fees” to tracks in the area where the bettor resides in addition to the fees paid to the host track. These “source market fees” are also shared with the purse account at the track near where the person making the bet resides. Our Company will change this track-oriented model, in which host track/betting agency negotiations have failed to produce increased purse revenue from increased simulcast wagering, to a model that more effectively ties growth in simulcast wagering to purse revenue growth.

Now more than ever we need to be prepared to protect our own interest, since our goals may not be exactly parallel with those of racetrack ownership. Often we are competing with the racetrack corporations for a portion of the takeout, and it is prudent to be prepared to protect our own interests. This Company will move us in that direction.

Cannon Shell 04-29-2008 02:44 PM

Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Group, LLC

1. Purpose of the Company
Several Thoroughbred horsemen’s organizations, working together since early 2005 to address common and industry-wide simulcasting issues (the “Horsemen’s Study Group”), elected to form the Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Group, LLC (“THG”), on November 2, 2007, in accord with the recommendation of legal counsel, for the following purpose:

The purpose of the Company shall be to improve and promote the competitive position of thoroughbred horse racing in the sports industry by collaborative development and administration of new, more efficient and centralized mechanisms through which thoroughbred horsemen’s organizations may facilitate agreements with TrackNet Media Group, LLC, and other entities operating multiple thoroughbred venues with respect to horsemen’s rights approvals under federal law, wagering security, accounting and settlement services and other simulcasting matters.
[Operating Agreement of the Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Group, LLC; Article II.2.01]

On December 6, 2007, enrolling horsemen’s organizations ratified their Membership at the Company’s first formal meeting; elected officers (President, Bob Reeves, Ohio HBPA; Secretary/General Counsel, Frank Petramalo, Virginia HBPA; Treasurer, Joe Santanna, Pennsylvania HBPA) and a Company manager (Wilson Shirley); and initiated a program to implement a new advance deposit wagering (ADW) model incorporating enhanced purse retention and non-exclusive wagering. These initial Member horsemen’s organizations are:

Delaware THA, Florida HBPA, Kentucky HBPA, Louisiana HBPA, Ohio HBPA, Pennsylvania HBPA, Texas Horsemen’s Partnership, and Virginia HBPA.

Since that time, ten more horsemen’s organizations have become THG members (see attached list), and TOC president Drew Couto was elected a vice-president of the Company.

2. Benefits of the Company

(a) The Company proposes to implement a simulcast revenue distribution model ensuring that a fair share of revenue from all simulcast wagering on Thoroughbred races is allocated to Thoroughbred purse accounts. Under this model, a portion of the revenue from wagers placed at non-Thoroughbred betting agencies (harness tracks, dog tracks, casinos, etc.) will be distributed to Thoroughbred purse accounts in the jurisdiction of the betting agency: the Company will negotiate and collect from the betting agencies an additional amount (over and above the Host Fee they pay to the track), and will distribute that amount at the direction of the Member horsemen’s organizations to purses at the Host Track and at the Thoroughbred track(s) in the jurisdiction where the bet was placed, as in the case of a wager accepted by an ADW company.


(b) The Company will aggregate “content” for simulcast authorization purposes, enabling all Member horsemen’s organizations – including those not covered by the Interstate Horseracing Act – to be party to the simulcast distribution model implemented by the Company.

(c) The Company will collect and disseminate simulcast wagering information, including handle, revenue, fees, etc., for all Members, and will facilitate simulcast wagering proposals for Members.

(d) The Company will be the location of resources to be shared by its Members for the benefit of its Members. The Company will undertake research on issues pertaining to the industry and make recommendations to its Members as to the best course of action for its Members.

(e) The Company will be self supporting. In its role as broker for its Members, a percentage of revenue collected will be directed to the Company to cover its operating expenses.

blackthroatedwind 04-29-2008 02:46 PM

Chuck, if you could add some color coding I think it might help.

mes5107 04-29-2008 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
That letter is one man's opinion of the situation....and in some ways a distortion of the truth.

Don't worry, I'm taking everything I read/hear from either side with a grain of salt. The truth is always somewhere in the middle, as is a compromise, I'm sure. However, it looks like the horsemen's side has buried their roots pretty deep.


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