Five New Grade I Races in 2007; Two Others Drop to Grade II
 

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36600


Will the commitee ever see past the Cella's and upgrade the friggin' ARKANSAS DERBY?????

OAKLAWN= THE BEST RUN RACETRACK IN THE US

Well it should be. They have no competition and they are only open a few months of the year. In addition, they are located in the preferred spring getaway for people in that part of the United States. The Cella's do a fine job and I also think that the Arkansas Derby should be a Grade I. I have several problems with the grading of races.

Anyone who doesn't think that the Ark Derby should be a grade one needs serious counseling.
They've established the race as a true serious derby prep with quality fields and offer a big purse.
Compare the last 5 years of the Ark Derby with the Bluegrass, which is grade one, and tell me what race is churning out horses who go on and hit the board or win future grade ones.
The grading of these races in the US is very comical.

No doubt about it Oracle. The Arkansas Derby is almost the preferred "final" prep for trainers. The three race series they have (Southwest, Rebel and Arkansas Derby) is absolutely perfect for a three year old. Out of all the "final" Derby preps, the Bluegrass is the one that is least appealing. However, The Bluegrass has history on its side.

I truly don't see how the way horses ran in the BG in the 70's and 80's should have any bearing on how it is rated now. Who exactly has gone on to win future grade ones out of the last 5 runnings?

In the last 5 runnings, 3 horses who hit the board in the Blue Grass haev gone on to win grade ones. Peace Rules, Offlee Wild, and Harlans Holiday.

In the last 5 runnnings of the ARk Derby, off the top of my head I can list Flower Alley, Purge, Smarty Jones, and Aflet Alex.
I'll check and see if there were anymore.

I bet if Cash Call sponsored the Arkansas Derby it would move to Grade I next year. :rolleyes:

Borrego and the late St. Liam are two I can think of immediately.. And I think Harvard Avenue may have won one.. The Malibu maybe?

Well I think that history should play a role in deciding if a race is a Grade I or not when you are looking at races with a lengthy history of being a Grade I. This is why I am a little upset about the Matron being downgraded. But there is no reason under the sun why the Arkansas Derby is not a Grade I race.

Ok thats 5.

Lets face it, the Bluegrass's 3 weeks out from the Derby has really hurt its stature.
That and the fact that it was run over a suspect track that was speed favoring, which they have now changed to absolutely no chance in hell on the lead.
My prognosis for the future of the Blue Grass is bleak.
Why would anyone wanna prep for the Derby over poly where speed has no chance, 3 weeks out, when you can prep at Gulf 5 weeks out, Aqu 4 weeks out, Ark weeks out, or SA 4 weeks out?
What you will get is 2nd tier horses looking to get earnings to get in who will end up making no impact on the Derby.

Aren't you forgetting Lion Heart? I thought he was 2nd in the Bluegrass and then went on to win the Haskell.

You are kidding right?
If thats the case then you have a whole bucnch of stakes in NY that have been downgraded that have richer histories than 90% of the current grade ones.
Check out the history of the fall highweight handicap. Its no longer even a grade 3!!!
History has no place in what should be greated.
Races evolve and take on different meaning and stature.
Its nonsense to think that what happened in 1940 means anything today.

Yes I am.
Thats still only 4 as compared to Ark's 5 that we can name off the top of our heads.
Borrego- Pac Classic and JCGC
Smarty- Derby and Preakness
Purge- Nyra mile
Alex- Preakness and Derby
Flower Alley- Travers and Jim Dandy

I think it is a balance of past and present history of the race. I put more emphasis on past history than present. And I think the Fall Highweight should be a Graded race.

And you are also forgetting Harlans Holiday. If my memory is correct, he won the Bluegrass Stakes and then won the Donn. I think The Donn is a Grade I race. But I could be wrong.

Sigh,
I wish you could get things straight.
If you actually read my posts instead of rushing off to try and prive something I say wrong, which is your main mission here, you'd see I listed him at the top of the thread as one of the four.

Why aren't you counting Saint Liam?

As big a travesty as the Arkansas Derby not going to G1 is that the Southwest is still ungraded. It should absolutely be a G3 between the combination of horses that have won it the past three years and the $250,000 purse.

Can you read Euro?

Apparently not. Can you maybe add voice to this board so I can hear recorded comments?

The Southwest is ungraded!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????????

You have to be kidding me. It should be a grade one at the very least.
Check out the great "grade two" race that the Bayakoa brought us the other day. Now thats a great event to be listed as a grade two huh?

I think the Rebel should be a III, Southwest a II and the Arkansas Derby a I.

I'd reverse the Southwest and Rebel but other than that I agree.

I think I would agree with you. I made an error on that. Southwest a Grade III, Rebel a Grade II and Arkansas Derby a Grade I.

at least the rebel got graded status in '06. but yes, absolutely the ark derby should be a gr 1. has the same purse as the fla derby. matter of fact, aren't they the only two to have this size purse?
i said on another thread that the bluegrass should not be a gr 1 while the ark is a gr 2.

LMFAO!!! :D

And I believe that races that are restricted to state breds should not be Graded either.

A stakes is ineligible for graded status if it is restricted to state breds.

Haven't we heard this before?

Well I don't think you can compare the Bluegrass to the Arkansas Derby when it comes to a historical perspective. I don't think you can say....well this race is a Grade I, therefor we need to make this race a Grade I. I think you need to look at each race independently. But there is no doubt that the Arkansas Derby should be a Grade I.

Yeah you are right. I have no idea what I was thinking. I totally lost it there for a moment.

I always think that the Excelsior is a State Bred only race. My apologies.

What I also don't like is that we don't have a Grade I turf sprint. I think this is about the only type of race missing from the Grade I list.

The fact that the Virginia Derby and Arkansas Derby are still GII races is a joke. At least the Colonial Turf Cup finally reached graded status this year. How many GIII races out there feature half a mill in purse cash?

Its pretty common knowledge that races with any restrictions can not be graded. Not just state bred races, but races like stakes that are written for horses who have never won a stakes race.

Rock Hard Ten won that Malibu, Lava Man 2nd, Harvard Ave (yet another that was run over by the Smarty Train) 3rd. Harvard Ave did win a G2 though- I believe the Portero Grande or something?

Slot, a race has to be run for at least a certain number of continuous years before attaining graded status. I think its three but I am not sure.
The Colonial races will attain status once they hit the required years.
Believe it or not the Miesque and the Generous had the same thing happen when they first started out in Hollywood. Even though they drew great fields and hads lot of purse money, they had to pass the time threshold.
Same thing with the Delta race that was just made grade three this year.
In these cases the track or circuit is not being penalized, its that the race has to attain the criteria in number of consecutive years run in order to obtain graded status.

Gotcha...thanks for the explanation.

Last year's Arkansas Derby has turned out quite a few good runners. Aside from Flower Alley and Afleet Alex, you have quite a few other nice horses including Rush Bay and Wild Desert.

I believe that the race has to be run for 2 years under the same conditions.