Not Phone, First Samurai, etc
 

Hello to all.

Happy to be an official member of the Derby Trail Forum. Good-bye ESPN!

Very disappointed w/ Not Phone's race Sunday. Didn't particularly care for the ride that Prado gave him (three checks), but I don't think he would have beat the winner that day regardless. Congrats to Bill Mott for having his horse ready to go.

First Samurai resumed training last week after 5+ weeks of stall walking to recoup from broken ribs (two left rear) sustained during the Bluegrass Stakes. Should everything go perfectly, we hope to have him racing at Saratoga. If not, who knows! Day by day!

Considering running That's A Given in the Belmont. Certainly a long-shot, but with a weak field, perhaps worth a shot. Broke his maiden at Belmont 2+ weeks ago by 9+ lengths in a 1 1/8 race. Sire is Point Given, dam (Dame Avie) has produced four stakes winners. He's on the improve and might be worth taking a chance on. We'll determine his status after he works this Friday.

Cheers to all. LR

Put him in there
 

Take a shot with That's A Given. It surely can't hurt and you will know what you got afterwards for sure.

Hope he is o.k.(n.p.)He looked like something may have gone wrong(physically) in the last 16th.

For what my opinion is worth (nothing at all...haha) I say send Thats a Given to the Belmont. Its setting up to be the type that can be won with a 100 Beyer and your horse is bred for the distance. Hell, look at Nolan's Cat last year grabbing 3rd! Also great to hear that First Sam is getting back and I cannot wait until he proves all the doubters wrong! Best of luck in your endeavors

~ dustin

Mood & Scuds - Noticed we're all "Junior Members" ... perhaps we should name a horse "Junior Member"!!

Jockey Club will definitely reject my request for such a name ... lHall Lass was the doom for me re: any potentially controversial names! Let me know if either of want to apply for the name!

NP came out of the race fine (according to Rick). Not sure what to point him to next ... any/all thoughts welcome / respected. LR

You need a rabbit like All Hail Stormy.Consider buying that piggy,and running these 2 as a pair.For all we know,he gets a real charge from seeing a horse come back to him,and Stormy will certainly do that.

lbig i think you are right..the checks killed his chances and the lack of position
he seemed to be un comfortable in the 5 path...good luck with him...

Why do you think its such a weak field in the Belmont? You have the second, third and fourth place horse from the Kentucky Derby. The first place horse from the Peter Pan. And several other nice horses. Seems kind of arrogant for a maiden winner, 2 weeks ago, to call this a weak field. Wide open yes, weak no.

Ironhorse - Weak as could be, thank you please.

Ky Derby winner - not there. Preakness winner - not there.

4th place finisher in the Ky Derby and entry in the Belmont - a maiden - did you know this or do you have a different angle?

3rd place finisher in the Preakness and entry in the Belmont - a MAIDEN - did you know this or do you have a different angle?

That's A Given won a 1 1/8 race at Belmont under a hand ride in almost the identical time as Sunriver's Peter Pan win (under a strong whipping).

Who are your strong, quality contenders? Please enlighten me. Lansdon

Team Valor horse
 

Lansdon,

I saw that Team Valor colt's last race and he looks like he likes to run a little.

I'm not sure how he will adjust to the surface and/or the pace scenario but he looks to be good. If yours is sitting on one, I would fire that little guy out there and see what happens.

Lbig, I agree it's a relatively weak field. That's why the floodgates are apparently open for entries, and they are streaming in. If they keep streaming, the race may not be so easy.

I would not run a young horse in a 1.5 mile race carrying 126 lbs unless 2 things were true: 1. It was the Belmont Stakes. 2. I thought my horse had a VERY good chance to win.

"A shot" would not be enough for me. A "good chance" would also not be enough.

If your horse goes, I'll be rooting for him. But I personally think it would be better to pick and choose from the summer stakes.

--Dunbar

anyone remember Savrava?

Then what would you call it Da Vinci?
 

Ironhorse,
By all means and ratings this is a very weak Belmont. WEAK!!!!!!!!! BC has never won a grade one, neither has Steppenwolfer, nor Jazil.
The basis you used for declaring this race to not be weak was that the "2nd,3rd, and 4th derby finishers" are in there. I respectfully say to you, big deal and who cares? Heck, Jazil and Wlf have NEVER won a stake!!! And BC has yet to win a grade one. No Derby or Preak winner, no exciting new shooters. This field is as wweak or weaker than the Belmont in 2000.

WEAK YES WIDE OPEN YES!!!!!!

LDog!! Good to see you on the DerbyTrail board.. great, ain't it??:)

Glad to hear FS is doing well, all the best on a safe return to the track..
I like the thought of running That's a Given in the Belmont. Why not?.. It IS a weaker than normal triple crown race. He could certainly grab a piece (if not the whole thing!!)
-I didn't see the NP race, I assumed he just didn't fire.. I didn't know he checked several times.. better racing luck next time!!
take care,

dan

I don't think anybody is calling the Belmont "easy," just that the "big guns" are not going.. making it a weaker field than expected. It'll still take a geat effort for any horse to cross the wire first!

just watched thats a given may 13 race..hell yes id put him in..he wasnt even asked..1.10 .6f..he has every chance to get a placing..if he came out of the race ok ..fire him..

i see a noble causeway colt won the shoemaker mile, any plans on keeping first sam a little shorter than 9f.

You are missing my point. Despite the fact that Barbaro and Bernardini are not running there still are some good horses running in here. They also have a good solid foundation for this race. I disagree with you that they are all weak. I do agree that some in here seem to be reaching.

Bluegrass Cat, Deputy Glitters, Jazil, Steppenwolfer, Sunriver and Bob & John seem to be the stronger horses.

I have a hard time using your horses race in comparison to Sunriver for two reasons. Different day and maiden field vs. a stakes field.

Lol!!
 

Funny thats what they said about sarava and Commendable as well as Noalns Cat last year before he hit the board.
Its a mile and a half race and at this time of year what some would call foundation, others would call over the top. The horses you just named have all been going at it very hard since last fall/winter. I've seen many melt down in the belmont who fit their profile. No doubt if he runs he will be a big price, thats justified. But Belmont Park is a particularly quirky surface, note Silver Trains dominance on it while being just average everyplace else. If you have a horse who handles big Sandy, you are always more inclined to take a shot. I also know that if Thats A Given had to ship for this race that he would not be considered. But when they are running a race atyour home track and you dont have teh taxation of shipping, its reasonable to tak a shot where you might not. One other thing, the detention barn has been an issue with amny horses who come to NY to race. It affected the BC last fall as a few horses flipped out in it. Obviously, Thats A given has handled it and it only meansa short walk from his stall.
The non winners of one condition will be written once a week at a track he can run at for the rest of this summer. hes already tri crwon nominated so its not like they are gambling a late fee, or shipping expenses. just taking a colt who appears to be getting sharper and taking a shot on his home track which he loves, in a race that his sire won by a city block. I guess its a good thing Lukas and Mcpeek didn't listen to people when Commendable and Sarava ran and won as "hopelessly overmatched horses" in 2000 and 2002.

I agree. I had Nolan's Cat last year in my tri (didn't have Andromeda's Hero though DUH), and I was glad that I didn't listen to everyone else who said he had no shot of hitting the board. I would give "That's a Given" a chance in the Belmont based upon his pedigree alone. This field is a weak field (compared to those in the past) and I think that the colt deserves a chance.

Ironhorse - You confuse me. Why is Jazil listed as one of your top Belmont selections? He's a maiden ... never won a race, but now he's a top pick for a grade I win?

I would never post here saying I'm confident That's A Given will win the Belmont (we may not even enter him). But could he run well and finish in the money (and possibly, long shot as it may be, win)? Absolutely.

You have no right to call me "arrogant". "Hopeful", yes. "Optimistic", yes.

If you meet me in person, then you have every right to call me whatever you want. Until that day, please refrain from the negative labeling. We can get plenty of that on the ESPN board.

Lansdon

Jazil is not a maiden. He won a Mdsp at AQ in December.

I think Sacred Light is the maiden Ldog is thinking of.

My intention was not to offend you if I did I apologize. I agree about the ESPN site as well. The personal attacks and trashing of horses is uncalled for. Maybe arrogant was too strong a word but I really question running a maiden winner in the Belmont. It just seems that because Barbaro and Bernardini are not running people are dismissing the other runners as weak. I believe there are still some quality seasoned horses in the race and asking a recent maiden to beat them is a tall order. I think your horse looks like a good one I would get him a couple more wins than step up for the fall. I realize that is just my opinion and you could careless its just to explain to you where I am coming from.

If Commendable can win the Belmont, pretty much any horse can. Worst winner of a Triple Crown race in history.

OK, I said I wasn't going to post here, but I came over and saw LLbigdog over here and I wanted to say thank you for sharing your experiences with everyone. Sorry about the buttheads over at the ESPN board. Some just don't know how to play well with others. Unhappy people who get jealous when others are happy and doing well.

I am happy to hear about FS. I can't wait to see him run again!

Also, run your horse in the Belmont. If he is fit enough and your trainer thinks he can handle it and is ready, why not take a chance? Love me some Point Given babies. Would love to see one in the Belmont. Personally the only horses to worry about would be BobandJohn (just cause I don't think he ran his race in the Derby), Sunriver and Deputy Glitters. But honestly, go for it! :o

Worst winner of any triple crown race was Giacomo. That was the biggest fluke in horse racing since Arcangues won the BC Classic at more than 100/1.
Giacomo makes Commendable look good. :D

Buffy why did you not want to post here?
Its the same core good group from ESPN plus some great new faces and people. The difference is that the trolls cant infect the place.
The set up is even better. That just about cinches the deal doesn't it?

Lil E Tee is right there as well.

Sacred Light's not a maiden either, eh, though I don't think his own nose has crossed the line first in a race...YET. Think he definitely has potential though.

Don't want to offend those with my stupidity. Just wanted to say thanks to bigdog. It really is nice of him to share his experiences. I enjoyed hearing about what it is like to own a racehorse. Don't know if I will ever own one, but I like hearing about it so I can dream about it.

Stupidity? YOu lost me there.

You're right, Sacred Light does have one win, via DQ... he has NEVER crossed the wire first though!

Glad to have you back Lansdon. I really enjoy your posts. You seem to manage your horses really well, and put them in good spots where you think they have a chance. If you think That's A Given stands a chance, I would say go for it. I would personally love to see him run, and I love rooting for your horses. The Belmont is shaping up to be a great race because it is so wide open. I hope First Samuri makes it back soon.

What is the reason for racing. The bottom line is money. I thing lbig is a great example of of horse ownership and looks out for his horses well being But cashing checks helps him stay in the business. Imaintain an enty in the belmount will produce a better return for him with the big purse in the Belmont. Even with a 5th he will get a better check than a N/W of 1 race. Who are we only fans and gamblers questioning a owner of his status. I have opinions of what to do but I dont think im qualified to tell him how to run his stable.

Its not like he doesn't get some good input from trusted sources as well.

I expressed an opinion. I explained what my opinion was based on. There are many ways to look look at a race. I was not trying to tell him what to do only what I would do. Everyday people post here about their opinions. Some are the same and some are very different. I guess thats why we run the races.
Why do you assume that everyone that posts here is just a fan or gambler?

My mistake on infering that you were only a fan or a gambler. I do feel that lbig is who he says he is. Therefore I respect his position. He has earned it with the stabeor stables he is connected to. Ihave no idea what your relationship to racing is. Maybe not even a fan. My appology for if I offended you by calling you a fan or a gambler. I assumed most in here wouldnt be offended by this name calling.

Most of his horses are VERY conservartively placed, and he himself is not prone to "taking a shot very often".
One time I talked into letting Message Red take a shot in a NY bred stakes race after she had just won a non 1 other than.
I assured him we would hit the board. I was in the paddock and he called me not all that pleased and said "Michael, this horse is 27 to ****ing 1!!!! I said yeah I know, make sure you play the exacta with her beneath Carson Hollow.
Carson Hollow ranbled home by 5 at like 1-5 but Message Red came storming down the center of the track to easliy take 2nd and become stakes placed.

Painting Lansdon with the crazy brush is about as far off as you can get. He's quite aware of what price the horse will be, he bets and follows races from all over the country daily.

Maybe Im guliable but I take these examples you cite relating to Lbig and enhance my respect for him as an owner.