2/5-6 (SA): Monica, Pasqual (G2's), Thunder Rd (G3); Lewis, Virgenes (G3's)
 

I wonder how long Baffert’s owners will hold out and keep their potential Derby horses with him.

If there ends up being a trainer switch on any of these horses, do the points from the prep races get retroactively assigned to those horses?

Meanwhile, I wonder if Oaklawn isn't clawing up enough money for a multi-million dollar purse boost for the Oaklawn Stakes on Derby weekend. They might even be able to split the race into 2 divisions...

I believe those points have been given to the second place finisher.

I don't

I haven’t seen the answer to this but it would undermine the Baffert ban if they retroactively assigned the points if the horse switches trainers.

For example, you let Baffert train the horse up until two week before the Derby, switch to Wayne Lukas, and now your horse is in the Derby even though Baffert trained it the entire time. I’d guess Churchill Downs is trying to avoid that so the horse would need to be switched before the final prep race so that it can earn enough points to get in.

But i don’t know. Just guessing based on the fact that the consequence of allowing retroactive assignment of the points would make them look like a complete joke.

I really hope all of the owners keep their horses with Baffert. I’d love to see someone prominent skip the Derby and I think it would be great to see some track come up with a huge purse 9f race to compete against the Derby. Or see the Derby winner get trashed in the Preakness by a Baffert horse. His horses can run at Pimlico right?

No. They're GWTW.

You may not have seen the Derby winner, but you probably saw the Queen's Plate winner..

Do you also root for the empire when you watch Star Wars?

So who is getting these points now?

Points are “vacated”, so I assume that means no one gets them. I was wrong.

Seems crazy to me that owners have their horses with Baffert still then. You'd think even he would have some sense and advise them to move them until this is settled.

I would like to see :"look at me" posts automatically deleted, but we can't all get what we want.

Does it? If Messier or any other horse is legit, they can switch trainers and just run him in the final round of preps. If the horse finishes top 2, it’ll probably have enough points to start in the Kentucky Derby.

I think we’ll see them switch trainers if the Churchill ban is not overturned. Maybe Churchill should have prevented any horse that runs for Baffert in 2022 from running in the Derby. But I think they would have had a tougher fight if they did that.

I don’t know enough about all of this but I do think wealthy horse owners continuing to send their horses to Baffert and trainers like him despite his record of violations and deaths will ultimately usher in the downfall of the entire sport. You can’t sit up there and talk about how much you care about the horses while knowingly sending your horses to trainers like him. And once a large enough portion of the public believes that owners are full of crap when they say they care about the horses, it’s basically over.

My thinking is it's already February. The horses are going to have 1, maybe 2 more preps at most. I don't think this will all get settled by March, which would really leave his horses with one prep to earn points.

What if they have an off day? Stumble out of the gate, etc?

They're really putting all of their eggs in one basket and his owners don't spend all that money to not run in the Derby.

I agree with you. If I were them, I’d switch trainers now but I also would have never sent the horse to Baffert to begin with and I probably have a more conservative approach than these owners have.

The hilarious part of this post is that Bob Baffert doesn't need a CDI ban to skip the Derby with a prominent horse.

He does so just about every year: Nadal, Charlatan, Life is Good, Vindication, Kafwain, Officer, Mastery, Hoppertunity, McKinzie, etc.

Furthermore, when he does show up at Pimlico with a prominent non-Derby starter, he usually gets his head handed to him...Bayern, Concert Tour, Collected, Thousand Words, Govenor Charlie, etc.

lol - I’ve never seen that but reminded me a bit of this gem from the movie Clerks:

https://youtu.be/iQdDRrcAOjA

Has nothing to do with rooting for Baffert. I couldn’t care less if he won a race or not. I root against the hypocrisy. I believe that anyone that talks about how all they care about is what’s in the best interest of the horses, if they are above the level of being a groom, they are lying. I don’t believe that anyone is honestly outraged by the cheaters in this sport. It’s nice to say you are. Sounds good. But I don’t believe it. If people really were, this subject wouldn’t even be a conversation because nobody would send him their horses and those he already had would have been taken away. Actions speak volumes. We aren’t gonna stop wagering on the races. We aren’t going to stop watching the races. We KNOW guys cheat yet it doesn’t stop us. If somehow the rule is overturned or there is some kind of injunction that allows Messier or Corniche to be in the Derby starting gate, are you going to protest or not watch? Nope. You’ll still watch, wager, and post about it. Everyone will.

Many of us are outraged by cheaters. You have some nerve, frankly, to make the accusations that just did.

You are conflating the issue of what Baffert is being accused of doing. Or maybe you just don't understand the issue. Whatever the case, you're badly confused and seem very comfortable making some pretty lousy accusations.

Looks good in print. Probably sounds good coming out of your mouth.I don’t believe you though. Not like you care. Just as I don’t care what your opinion of me is (even though you constantly express it.

So now I'm a liar.

I'm actually nice to you. I made a mistake. I hope everyone here ignores you from now on.

Who hurt you so badly that you’ve got such a negative outlook?

I can tell you that my wagering was significantly lower in 2021 than it has been in years. I’ve been very turned off from the sport. I’m definitely not still watching and wagering in the same way I used to.

If someone like me, who grew up going to the track a couple times a week every summer with his grandpa, is starting to lose interest, I think the sport is in trouble. There are maybe 2-3 people I know younger than me who have any interest in horse racing and 1 of them is my relative.

The major thing everyone brings up when I ask them about horse racing is that they think the animals are treated poorly. I used to tell them, “Are you kidding? These top level horses live better lives than a lot of people.” With all the Servis/Navarro stuff and Baffert stuff, I’ve stopped saying that.

I wouldn’t call you a liar. I don’t know you. In all the years we’ve been on here, I’ve never insulted you. You can’t say the same. A liar is someone that knows what they say is untrue. I think you believe what you say. I just don’t believe it. And to be clear, I’m only taking about this issue. Stop trying to make it into something it isn’t. You’re better than that.

That’s just the thing. I don’t have a negative outlook. I have an extremely positive one. Horses like Flightline and Life is Good and Corniche really excite me. Not as much as they excite Rollo but still. I just don’t have any expectation that there is a level playing field. Never have and never will. I think most people do what’s best for them and if it happens to also be good for the horse, that’s great.

Corniche?

Messier goes kind of funny, like that hoss you loved Vekoma. He kind of throws that left front out and around. He took off like a shot at one point early stretch which was impressive.

Bonus question. What Buddy Holly tune am I listening to right now ?

Oh boy

Correct.

This thread is almost perfect. All that we need is Vic to come in and post his “look at me” nonsense and we’ll really have it all.