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Kasept 07-20-2017 05:43 PM

7/23-24 (SAR): CCA Oaks (G1); Caress
 

Kasept 07-20-2017 05:44 PM


RHT2004 07-20-2017 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 1095302)



Elates coming out party. Exciting times.

RolloTomasi 07-20-2017 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095307)
Elates coming out party. Exciting times.

That sure was a cute little stakes she won at Delaware over 3 other horses.

Two of them came back to win. Analyze, who ran last, came back to win a first-condition allowance in desperate fashion at 3-5. Teresa Z shipped over to face the monsters that line up for non-winners once allowances at Penn National and romped.

Of course, the only horse from the Light Hearted (apropos name) to actually face stakes horses next out, Modacious, came back to run...you guessed it...dead last in the Grade 3 Delaware Oaks.

Ironically enough, the winner of that race, It Tiz Well--an understudy of Unique Bella--defeated elate by 5 lengths in the Honey Bee at Oaklawn. It Tiz Well beat Modacious by over 8 lengths. On strict form, that should have been good enough for Elate to finish second-to-last in the Delware Oaks.

It's not all bad news though, Elate couldn't possibly run any worse in this Grade 1 than she did in her only other Grade 1 start (DNF, vanned off).

RHT2004 07-20-2017 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1095313)
That sure was a cute little stakes she won at Delaware over 3 other horses.

Two of them came back to win. Analyze, who ran last, came back to win a first-condition allowance in desperate fashion at 3-5. Teresa Z shipped over to face the monsters that line up for non-winners once allowances at Penn National and romped.

Of course, the only horse from the Light Hearted (apropos name) to actually face stakes horses next out, Modacious, came back to run...you guessed it...dead last in the Grade 3 Delaware Oaks.

Ironically enough, the winner of that race, It Tiz Well--an understudy of Unique Bella--defeated elate by 5 lengths in the Honey Bee at Oaklawn. It Tiz Well beat Modacious by over 8 lengths. On strict form, that should have been good enough for Elate to finish second-to-last in the Delware Oaks.

It's not all bad news though, Elate couldn't possibly run any worse in this Grade 1 than she did in her only other Grade 1 start (DNF, vanned off).


You are 2 sharp to totally disregard her like this.

RHT2004 07-20-2017 06:48 PM

I think she wires this field. No way Jose is not out dictating terms with this draw.

RolloTomasi 07-20-2017 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095316)
I think she wires this field. No way Jose is not out dictating terms with this draw.

If all 3 stay in, my guess is Casse will send either Corporate Queen or Summer Luck to the front. Salty likes to make sustained runs down the backstretch, so even if she taxes herself in the stretch, she still is unlikely to let Elate get away on the turn.

Abel Tasman has displayed push-button form in a couple of races (Acorn, Santa Ysabel) this year. My guess is Smith will simply sit loaded throughout and then blow them away on the turn. She's not beholden to the pace.

All that aside, Elate hardly possesses sharp early speed to begin with. She may make the front end, but there's no guarantee she can dictate terms if she is challenged early.

10 pnt move up 07-20-2017 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1095318)
If all 3 stay in, my guess is Casse will send either Corporate Queen or Summer Luck to the front. Salty likes to make sustained runs down the backstretch, so even if she taxes herself in the stretch, she still is unlikely to let Elate get away on the turn.

Abel Tasman has displayed push-button form in a couple of races (Acorn, Santa Ysabel) this year. My guess is Smith will simply sit loaded throughout and then blow them away on the turn. She's not beholden to the pace.

All that aside, Elate hardly possesses sharp early speed to begin with. She may make the front end, but there's no guarantee she can dictate terms if she is challenged early.

Isnt the way to beat, all things being equal, a horse like Abel Talesman is just the way that unfolded in the SA Oaks, a fast talented horse setting real fractions and running them off their feet so to speak. I actually think slow paces dont help against horses with great turns of foot, of course I have been saying that to you on message boards for the better part of 15 years so its not a novel opinion.

RolloTomasi 07-20-2017 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095320)
Isnt the way to beat, all things being equal, a horse like Abel Talesman is just the way that unfolded in the SA Oaks, a fast talented horse setting real fractions and running them off their feet so to speak.

That's how you beat a blinkers-less Abel Tasman maybe.

Regardless, Elate does not have that sort of speed. In fact, she herself was run off her feet in a minor stakes at Tampa by Tapa Tapa Tapa.

I'm not convinced Abel Tasman was without some sort of "hidden" excuse in the Santa Anita Oaks. There was a barn switch and an equipment change afterwards. If she had a race or two under her belt prior to the Santa Ysabel, it would not be far-fetched to say she would have run down Unique Bella. She zeroed in on her at the 1/8 pole but ran like a classic short horse the rest of the way.

The SA Oaks doesn't fit with her other races.

RHT2004 07-20-2017 08:47 PM

Rollo 10pt appreciate the healthy discussion.

RHT2004 07-20-2017 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1095321)
That's how you beat a blinkers-less Abel Tasman maybe.

Regardless, Elate does not have that sort of speed. In fact, she herself was run off her feet in a minor stakes at Tampa by Tapa Tapa Tapa.

I'm not convinced Abel Tasman was without some sort of "hidden" excuse in the Santa Anita Oaks. There was a barn switch and an equipment change afterwards. If she had a race or two under her belt prior to the Santa Ysabel, it would not be far-fetched to say she would have run down Unique Bella. She zeroed in on her at the 1/8 pole but ran like a classic short horse the rest of the way.

The SA Oaks doesn't fit with her other races.

Im with you on AT. You know i love Bob and Mike. I just feel Elate is better then she looks. I wont be surprised at all if she wires. Ill be betting her, because if im right now is the time.

10 pnt move up 07-20-2017 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095324)
Im with you on AT. You know i love Bob and Mike. I just feel Elate is better then she looks. I wont be surprised at all if she wires. Ill be betting her, because if im right now is the time.

I just took a look at the race...turf marathons have more pace than this race.

RHT2004 07-20-2017 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095325)
I just took a look at the race...turf marathons have more pace than this race.

Yup. Impossible for me to believe the plan isn't to make the top. From the rail with an aggressive rider. She makes the lead easily.

RolloTomasi 07-21-2017 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095324)
I just feel Elate is better then she looks. I wont be surprised at all if she wires. Ill be betting her, because if im right now is the time.

Even here, because of the presumed advantage of lone speed, Elate will probably be an underlay. Furthermore, she is on the short list for "Money Burner of the Year".

Beyond that, looking at the field and the form, I have to think that the main reason that Elate and Berned--who is making a quick turnaround of 15 days--are even in there is to try and earn the all-important Grade 1-placing necessary to bring big $$$ at the November Keeneland sale.

If that is true, Mott's instructions to Ortiz may be tailored towards holding on to a placing rather than trying to take it to Abel Tasman.

Additionally, don't forget that 9f is new terrority for this one as well.

10 pnt move up 07-22-2017 12:55 AM

After looking at this race I really feel like Salty may be pretty tough.

She should get the jump on her only real rival and for some reason I just dont see Baffert being fully cranked when an Alabama win surely seals the 3yo filly division.

Just feels like a two horse race, one horse has the pace advantage and a better price so I would weight most of a multi race play that way.

RolloTomasi 07-22-2017 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095497)
After looking at this race I really feel like Salty may be pretty tough.

She should get the jump on her only real rival and for some reason I just dont see Baffert being fully cranked when an Alabama win surely seals the 3yo filly division.

Just feels like a two horse race, one horse has the pace advantage and a better price so I would weight most of a multi race play that way.

Watching the replay of the Acorn, it was Abel Tasman who got the jump on Salty. Abel Tasman was literally "bounding along" after the first 1/4 mile and accelerated dramatically when asked.

Salty, on the other hand, seems like a horse that takes her time getting in gear.

10 pnt move up 07-22-2017 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1095540)
Watching the replay of the Acorn, it was Abel Tasman who got the jump on Salty. Abel Tasman was literally "bounding along" after the first 1/4 mile and accelerated dramatically when asked.

Salty, on the other hand, seems like a horse that takes her time getting in gear.

that is true

and while there is no reason I wouldnt mind seeing Abel Tasman run on the turf, she has that burst.

RolloTomasi 07-22-2017 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095547)
and while there is no reason I wouldnt mind seeing Abel Tasman run on the turf, she has that burst.

I think Quality Road's first Grade 1 winner was Hootenanny who won the BC Juvenile Turf a few years ago. Either way, Quality Road might pull off a monumental sire performance if he can get the exacta in the Acorn, CCA Oaks, and Alabama with these two fillies.

Back to the CCA Oaks, you may be on to something with Salty. She was very resolute in the stretch in the Acorn, driving all the way to the wire. In the Gulfstream Park Oaks, she uncorked a sustained rally from about as early as the 1/2 mile pole and yet continued to pour it on in the stretch.

Granted, that was against weaker, but considering that in this race she has a furlong more to work with than the Acorn, perhaps that is a tick in her favor despite Abel Tasman's KY Oaks win at the distance. Earlier, I said Abel Tasman was short in the Santa Ysabel, but there's also the chance that she might "wait" on horses. That could have been the reason for Smith recommending the addition of blinkers after the SA Oaks.

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 01:52 PM

The bad : I bet Weather Wiz off that strong looking mdn and for a reason I dont quite understand the rider took him off the rail, took back, with a one paced horse and never could get by the winner, who also looked one paced.

The good : I bet the winner of the mdn race back in the 4th and the horse aired. damn mind game this sport is.

RHT2004 07-23-2017 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095749)
The bad : I bet Weather Wiz off that strong looking mdn and for a reason I dont quite understand the rider took him off the rail, took back, with a one paced horse and never could get by the winner, who also looked one paced.

The good : I bet the winner of the mdn race back in the 4th and the horse aired. damn mind game this sport is.

Elate will be tough today.

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095751)
Elate will be tough today.

funny

I was a bit against the big fundamental in this spot but with the track he is going to be pretty tough.

RHT2004 07-23-2017 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095757)
funny

I was a bit against the big fundamental in this spot but with the track he is going to be pretty tough.

I think he jogs. Serling hates him. I think hes improving every race

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095758)
I think he jogs. Serling hates him. I think hes improving every race

rode the bias and still lost, definitely not a good effort.

RHT2004 07-23-2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095763)
rode the bias and still lost, definitely not a good effort.

Def.

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 03:49 PM

Nice to see a horse rally wide. Track may be more on the fairer side, why makes the 2 in the 4ths effort even more impressive.

RHT2004 07-23-2017 05:13 PM

Elate 4min from a career top. Excited.

cakes44 07-23-2017 05:22 PM

What a weird-ass race.

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095798)
Elate 4min from a career top. Excited.

She topped, tripped out, and still lost

today was her day.

RHT2004 07-23-2017 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095805)
She topped, tripped out, and still lost

today was her day.

I think she proved she belongs and will relish the Alabama distance. To each his own though.

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1095321)
That's how you beat a blinkers-less Abel Tasman maybe.

Regardless, Elate does not have that sort of speed. In fact, she herself was run off her feet in a minor stakes at Tampa by Tapa Tapa Tapa.

I'm not convinced Abel Tasman was without some sort of "hidden" excuse in the Santa Anita Oaks. There was a barn switch and an equipment change afterwards. If she had a race or two under her belt prior to the Santa Ysabel, it would not be far-fetched to say she would have run down Unique Bella. She zeroed in on her at the 1/8 pole but ran like a classic short horse the rest of the way.

The SA Oaks doesn't fit with her other races.

as usual you were right, Abel Tasman is just a tricky horse...she can move whenever she wants.

That was interesting ride for sure, seemed like he wanted to make sure he was near the lead but to move like that in th middle, and still hold on is usually the sign of a pretty dang good horses.

Salty had a huge trip, but think she is the lesser talented between these two.

cakes44 07-23-2017 05:32 PM

Mike Smith did everything in his power to get Elate a Grade 1, but it still wasn't enough.

RHT2004 07-23-2017 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44 (Post 1095813)
Mike Smith did everything in his power to get Elate a Grade 1, but it still wasn't enough.

That's what you take away from that? Good luck moving forward bud.

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 05:37 PM

Abel Tasman is a very tricky horse to ride...she is so big and Mike has said that when she gets going she is rolling

that being said the 2 ran a tremendous race.

cakes44 07-23-2017 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095815)
That's what you take away from that? Good luck moving forward bud.

That middle-move was completely unnecessary and should have lost him the race.

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44 (Post 1095819)
That middle-move was completely unnecessary and should have lost him the race.

going to be an interesting alabama with unchained melody

despite the trip for the 7 I am just wondering if she doesnt fit a bit better around 7f to a 1mile.

RHT2004 07-23-2017 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1095832)
going to be an interesting alabama with unchained melody

despite the trip for the 7 I am just wondering if she doesnt fit a bit better around 7f to a 1mile.

Shes a trap IMO.

RHT2004 07-23-2017 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44 (Post 1095819)
That middle-move was completely unnecessary and should have lost him the race.

Thats fair. But i think Elate improved today. Taking a non biased view who should love the 10f of the Alabama? Feels like Elate to me.

ateamstupid 07-23-2017 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44 (Post 1095819)
That middle-move was completely unnecessary and should have lost him the race.

It's amazing that a horse racing observer could look at that ride and criticize it. Absolutely amazing.

cakes44 07-23-2017 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1095837)
Thats fair. But i think Elate improved today. Taking a non biased view who should love the 10f of the Alabama? Feels like Elate to me.

No doubt Elate improved. She ran big.

10 pnt move up 07-23-2017 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44 (Post 1095842)
No doubt Elate improved. She ran big.

I guess, I feel like she had the dream trip while the 2 and 7 did not. If she is like 3/1 the Alabama could be a big underlay.

Wonder if Baffert thinks about skipping the Alabama...running in it actually only hurts the horses chances at winning the division. Right now she has a 1/16 of a pole lead.


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