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-   -   Mohaymen to Kings Bishop 7f (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60847)

Secretriat34 08-25-2016 01:35 PM

Mohaymen to Kings Bishop 7f
 
Mohaymen shortens up to 7f in the KB at Toga...this should be a better spot for him instead of the Travers

this is a tough race though and his stats might make him a bit slow on paper

Pants II 08-25-2016 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretriat34 (Post 1074841)
Mohaymen shortens up to 7f in the KB at Toga...this should be a better spot for him instead of the Travers

this is a tough race though and his stats might make him a bit slow on paper

Gate trouble is the main concern.

There's no way I'd leave the horse off multis because if it breaks properly then it will be in contention. This is the right distance.

Secretriat34 08-25-2016 02:56 PM

Shadwell Stable's homebred Mohaymen,
a fourtime grade II winner, will cut back to one turn for
the first time since last November in the $500,000
King's Bishop Stakes (gr. I).

The Travers Stakes had been the target for Mohaymen.

His connections, decided to race the Tapit colt in a sprint.

Trainer Kiaran McLaughlin said he prefers to send
the colt seven furlongs at this stage, and he added
that a victory in the King's Bishop is very good for a
potential stallion's resume.

RolloTomasi 08-25-2016 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretriat34 (Post 1074851)
Trainer Kiaran McLaughlin said he prefers to send
the colt seven furlongs at this stage, and he added
that a victory in the King's Bishop is very good for a
potential stallion's resume.

Yes, because a Grade 1 win at 10f in a Classic race is does nothing for the stallion resume.

Meanwhile, a victory in the King's Bishop historically is hardly "stallion making" territory. In the past 20 years the most important stallion amongst the winners has been More Than Ready with minor assists from Tale of the Cat, Honour and Glory, and Forestry.

Ironically, it has been the losers of the King's Bishop who have gone on to make a dent in the breeding shed. Elusive Quality, Distorted Humor, Successful Appeal, City Zip, Ghostzapper, Munnings, and Uncle Mo all placed in the race.

Of course, the quote comes from a guy who, in an effort to likewise promote the stud career of another resounding underachiever, once said about City Place: "The fastest horse I ever trained".

City Place made a grand total of no career starts.

Secretriat34 08-25-2016 04:07 PM

"no" is a pragmatic speech particle, that is misused in the post above,
the word "zero" is the appropriate word to be used in the context above...


...:rolleyes:

RolloTomasi 08-25-2016 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretriat34 (Post 1074861)
"no" is a pragmatic speech particle, that is misused in the post above,
the word "zero" is the appropriate word to be used in the context above...


...:rolleyes:

That don't make no never mind...

Anyways, I don't take it as a sign of confidence that the colt has been rerouted (no pun intended) to the King's Bishop just days before either race.

McLaughlin was pretty quick to bow out of the rest of the Triple Crown after Mohaymen's decent effort in the Derby (whereas with Frosted, who ran similarly the year before, he targeted the Belmont). Perhaps the horse is hard to keep together.

Indian Charlie 08-25-2016 05:20 PM

perhaps he's just overrated.

Pants II 08-25-2016 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 1074874)
perhaps he's just overrated.

Probably. The field for the race is nothing much. It's so bad I'm considering using Bird Song in multis.

RHT2004 08-25-2016 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants II (Post 1074876)
Probably. The field for the race is nothing much. It's so bad I'm considering using Bird Song in multis.

Bad? Field is loaded. Rudy's horse. Chad's horse. And the 2 Bafferts do it for me.

RHT2004 08-25-2016 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants II (Post 1074876)
Probably. The field for the race is nothing much. It's so bad I'm considering using Bird Song in multis.

He is OK 2. Probably be my next use.

Pants II 08-25-2016 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1074883)
He is OK 2. Probably be my next use.

I'm using the De Paulo horse too.

ranger5830 08-25-2016 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1074860)
Yes, because a Grade 1 win at 10f in a Classic race is does nothing for the stallion resume.

Meanwhile, a victory in the King's Bishop historically is hardly "stallion making" territory. In the past 20 years the most important stallion amongst the winners has been More Than Ready with minor assists from Tale of the Cat, Honour and Glory, and Forestry.

Ironically, it has been the losers of the King's Bishop who have gone on to make a dent in the breeding shed. Elusive Quality, Distorted Humor, Successful Appeal, City Zip, Ghostzapper, Munnings, and Uncle Mo all placed in the race.

Of course, the quote comes from a guy who, in an effort to likewise promote the stud career of another resounding underachiever, once said about City Place: "The fastest horse I ever trained".

City Place made a grand total of no career starts.

I would say the most successful stallion of the last 20 winners, hands down is 2007 winner Hard Spun, who you didn't even mention. Henny Hughes has also been successful, most notably as the sire of Beholder.

Alabama Stakes 08-25-2016 07:17 PM

:tro::tro:
Quote:

Originally Posted by ranger5830 (Post 1074892)
I would say the most successful stallion of the last 20 winners, hands down is 2007 winner Hard Spun, who you didn't even mention. Henny Hughes has also been successful, most notably as the sire of Beholder.

:tro::tro::

RolloTomasi 08-25-2016 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranger5830 (Post 1074892)
I would say the most successful stallion of the last 20 winners, hands down is 2007 winner Hard Spun, who you didn't even mention. Henny Hughes has also been successful, most notably as the sire of Beholder.

Beholder is the only horse Henny Hughes sired of any note. He was quickly packed off to Japan. Same reason why I left off First Defence (who sired top mare--and a Beholder rival-- Close Hatches).

Hard Spun doesn't match up to More Than Ready (who has sired over 150 stakes winners) in nearly all fronts. He started off strong and quickly tailed off. His top performers at this point have been the good turf mare Hard Not To Like and Questing (both from his first crop). Otherwise he has gotten one-hit types like Wicked Strong, Smooth Roller, and Hard Aces. In addition, there is a question of soundness with some high profile horses with abbreviated careers (Questing, Smooth Roller, and Young Brian).

Secretriat34 08-26-2016 10:16 AM

some comment on MO's lugging out in his derby preps as a sign of injury..

perhaps this is why he skipped the other 2 after the Kentucky fried chicken derby..

now he is rested and stops back at a sprint 7f...should be his race to loose

as i recall Hard spun was on the lead in kentucky and faded at the wire ,10f too much track...sortof the same with Mo

Indian Charlie 08-26-2016 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretriat34 (Post 1074923)
some comment on MO's lugging out in his derby preps as a sign of injury..

perhaps this is why he skipped the other 2 after the Kentucky fried chicken derby..

now he is rested and stops back at a sprint 7f...should be his race to loose

as i recall Hard spun was on the lead in kentucky and faded at the wire ,10f too much track...sortof the same with Mo

Not even remotely the same.

Secretriat34 08-26-2016 12:05 PM

it is the same - neither colt could run the classic distance and win

Indian Charlie 08-26-2016 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretriat34 (Post 1074935)
it is the same - neither colt could run the classic distance and win

That is an overly simplistic and lazy analysis.

Secretriat34 08-26-2016 02:07 PM

i'll pray tonight, and hope my desire to get the handicapping knowledge and wisdom you have will be granted...

should I go out for fast food now ?


nahhhh...i'll order a pizza and have it delivered..

you know how lazy I am

ah crap..i have to get up to walk over to the phone...forget that, I'll order online

philcski 08-27-2016 10:58 AM

Hard Spun would jog over Mohaymen.

Mohaymen is an underlay at 5-1.

Indian Charlie 08-27-2016 05:01 PM

Apparently, Mohaymen can't get seven furlongs either.

RolloTomasi 08-27-2016 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 1075207)
Apparently, Mohaymen can't get seven furlongs either.

Seems like he just bought himself a one way ticket to Dubai to help fill races during the Meydan festival for the next 5-7 years a la Grand Hombre and State Shinto.

Indian Charlie 08-27-2016 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1075213)
Seems like he just bought himself a one way ticket to Dubai to help fill races during the Meydan festival for the next 5-7 years a la Grand Hombre and State Shinto.

Sounds about right.

Thoroughbred Fan 08-27-2016 11:03 PM

Get to the shed. Hurry Hurry Hurry! Overrated G2 winner. By Tapit, he'll get a pass. Not very talented against top horses.

I'm not a hater, but speak the truth.

He won't win again against any good horses at any distance. Best in the generation is a complete mystery even after the Travers.

asudevil 08-27-2016 11:57 PM

Just never improved from 2 to 3. Can't blame the connections for taking this shot. This is what they had to work with.

RHT2004 08-28-2016 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan (Post 1075266)
Get to the shed. Hurry Hurry Hurry! Overrated G2 winner. By Tapit, he'll get a pass. Not very talented against top horses.

I'm not a hater, but speak the truth.

He won't win again against any good horses at any distance. Best in the generation is a complete mystery even after the Travers.


Lol at all of this. A lot of you guys loved Mohaymen last year... I never did. Best of this generation is crystal clear. As a matter of fact so is 2nd best. Arogate is the 1 and American Freedom is 2. Hell the latter is 1-1 against Exagerattor and was best against him last time.

RolloTomasi 08-28-2016 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1075270)
Best of this generation is crystal clear. As a matter of fact so is 2nd best. Arogate is the 1 and American Freedom is 2. Hell the latter is 1-1 against Exagerattor and was best against him last time.

And Cupid is the 3rd best so Baffert has the place surrounded. Never mind not a one of those colts ran in a single Triple Crown race, so I guess that's evidence that we can do away with the whole outdated thing.

Instead of letting all these colts battle it out in top company from September of their 2yo year on through June of their sophomore year, we can just keep them all in the barn until March or April when they can show up in a maiden special weight sprint at odds-on. A steady diet of conditioned allowance races and undercard races during the spring should get keep them fresh and ready to pounce on all the inferior stock that have been running themselves ragged in Grade 1 races...

Quote:

Lol at all of this. A lot of you guys loved Mohaymen last year... I never did.
Yeah, you weren't fooled. Instead you were all over Mor Spirit (surprise, surprise).

Then again, I presume Mor Spirit is the 4th best of his generation, so once again, great eye!

Here is the rest of the top 10:

5th Drefong
6th Danzing Candy
7th Collected
8th Malibu Sunset
9th Hoffenheim
10th Ten Blessings

freddymo 08-28-2016 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1075277)
And Cupid is the 3rd best so Baffert has the place surrounded. Never mind not a one of those colts ran in a single Triple Crown race, so I guess that's evidence that we can do away with the whole outdated thing.

Instead of letting all these colts battle it out in top company from September of their 2yo year on through June of their sophomore year, we can just keep them all in the barn until March or April when they can show up in a maiden special weight sprint at odds-on. A steady diet of conditioned allowance races and undercard races during the spring should get keep them fresh and ready to pounce on all the inferior stock that have been running themselves ragged in Grade 1 races...


Yeah, you weren't fooled. Instead you were all over Mor Spirit (surprise, surprise).

Then again, I presume Mor Spirit is the 4th best of his generation, so once again, great eye!

Here is the rest of the top 10:

5th Drefong
6th Danzing Candy
7th Collected
8th Malibu Sunset
9th Hoffenheim
10th Ten Blessings

You lost me at Hoffenheim otherwise I was following along

RolloTomasi 08-28-2016 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo (Post 1075281)
You lost me at Hoffenheim otherwise I was following along

Keep trying. The last one named beat career maiden Giant Expectations by 4.5 lengths in his debut. This is important because both Arrogate and American Freedom beat Giant Expectations by 4.5 lengths in their respective maiden wins, too. Thus, Ten Blessings is possibly in the top 3 of his generation (if he ever runs again).

While we await his return, his 2yo half sister, Life's Blessing (by Mohaymen's sire) just won her career debut at Del Mar yesterday, also by 4.5 lengths. Giant Expectations was not in the field.

RHT2004 08-28-2016 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1075277)
And Cupid is the 3rd best so Baffert has the place surrounded. Never mind not a one of those colts ran in a single Triple Crown race, so I guess that's evidence that we can do away with the whole outdated thing.

Instead of letting all these colts battle it out in top company from September of their 2yo year on through June of their sophomore year, we can just keep them all in the barn until March or April when they can show up in a maiden special weight sprint at odds-on. A steady diet of conditioned allowance races and undercard races during the spring should get keep them fresh and ready to pounce on all the inferior stock that have been running themselves ragged in Grade 1 races...


Yeah, you weren't fooled. Instead you were all over Mor Spirit (surprise, surprise).

Then again, I presume Mor Spirit is the 4th best of his generation, so once again, great eye!

Here is the rest of the top 10:

5th Drefong
6th Danzing Candy
7th Collected
8th Malibu Sunset
9th Hoffenheim
10th Ten Blessings

I liked Destin, Outwork and Mor Spirit going in. Why is that relevant?

bare it all 08-29-2016 07:43 AM

Mohaymen to get the rest of the year off and they intend to return him as a 4YO. Good on them if he comes back and has a good go of it.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-gets-time-off

King Glorious 08-29-2016 09:08 AM

The first person that I see that post "we're lucky to at least have him coming back" about this horse or Creator.....is risking getting shot.

RolloTomasi 08-29-2016 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious (Post 1075431)
The first person that I see that post "we're lucky to at least have him coming back" about this horse or Creator.....is risking getting shot.

If we are lucky, their connections will keep thinking about those Tapit pedigrees while they are laid up and start entertaining offers for stud duty...hopefully overseas.

Secretriat34 08-30-2016 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bare it all (Post 1075423)
Mohaymen to get the rest of the year off and they intend to return him as a 4YO. Good on them if he comes back and has a good go of it.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-gets-time-off

Sounds like he is injured and want to give him time

Secretriat34 08-30-2016 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 1075207)
Apparently, Mohaymen can't get seven furlongs either.

or 7 yards


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