Gov Haley demands rebel flag removal
 

South Carolina Gov Nikki Haley flanked by politicians from both parties, today demanded that state lawmakers remove the confederate flag from statehouse grounds....better late than never, obviously the church murders played a role in her about-face....I respect folk's right to have an opinion but those of us who served in the military saluted and respected the American flag and the Civil War is long over.

:tro:

I will always support an individuals right to free speech in all forms, even what I consider the most virulent-like westboro and the kkk.
but I have always disagreed with that flag having any place on any government building or site. it is anything but patriotic to fly it.
I can't help that some didn't learn their history, or heard some revisionist claptrap, or that some wish to fly it knowing full well what it represents. that's their business.
better late than never, that she and others have spoken up now. and shame on those cowards running for higher office who won't say what's right--at least, not til the polls show they should.(looking at you, huckster, and you, santorum, who have no issue speaking up on other issues that states have decided upon.).
maybe next those states can rethink monuments to Forrest in Selma, statues of wade Hampton, whose post war behavior was worse than when he fought to keep his slaves, and others like them. leave the markers on the battlefields and museums, but quit trying to create heroes out of people that were anything but.
no government property, who is supposed to serve all, should be celebrating a time when their forbears tried to tear this country apart.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT



"It has become a distraction all over the country right now," Bentley said. The iconic Confederate battle flag in particular "is offensive to some people because unfortunately, it's like the swastika; some people have adopted that as part of their hate-filled groups."

altho i agree that the flag should not be flown on public property, the above isn't correct. the flag has always been a symbol of racism and white supremacy in this country.
now, other hate groups outside the country use it as the fill in when their flag isn't allowed-nazi's and white supremacists for instance in germany.

"Congratulations! You Oppose The Confederate Flag. Now What?"

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/23/...flag-now-what/

You are correct. Look, I don't want to see the Feds ban the rebel flag (free speech) but companies and the market place have a role here, it's time that a statement is made that bad taste (to say nothing of hatred and racism) HAS NO PLACE IN THIS COUNTRY.

The rebel flag is a symbol, to many it represents the worst of human nature...I resent this writers arrogant assumption that I think removing it from our culture will end racism and bigotry, of course not but this goes beyond "political correctness" and isn't some knee-jerk reaction to the murders in SC. We don't use the "n-word" and we consider hate crime particularly vile...if we strive for a more just society we can't turn a blind eye to folks who hide behind freedom of speech to subvert the very nature of freedom. This is a message that must be sent...a necessary step in a journey far from it's end.

i don't see a ban happening at all. nor should it.

well said. i've always been against the states flying it-how unnerving to those not of that viewpoint who lived in those states. what message did it send to their citizens who saw that flag and wondered?
i am a history nut, and have been to just about every civil war battlefield in this country, large and small. but i know full well what that flag meant, and what it continues to mean to many. it has a place in history, in museums, as a learning point...but to have flown it with pride by state governments...simply unreal. and i'm glad i get to see that change in my lifetime, it's gone on too long already.
i hope the removal is a first step. much needs changing. it's a continual process, not a journey with one or two destinations, such as appamattox and selma.

Gosh, sorry you took offense. I didn't know you worked in the media. Television or print?

No...I don't work in the media. While I understand the writer was challenging the media's coverage, I found his implication that the rest of us are mindless sheep who are controlled by media coverage and thusly adhere to the naïve concept that if the rebel flag is gone everything will be "all good".

Well...would really like to eliminate guns, but since that is a problem, maybe start with the Viagra that fuels them. Got a good stance to keep that piece of sh#t flag?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/politi...ose/index.html

What a wretch.

His idiotic comments about the shooting are beyond the pale.. But as tho he felt he'd not let enough stupid fall out of his mouth:


He voted against opening debate about whether to remove the flag from the memorial on Tuesday.

"I think the misuse and the miseducation of the flag has pushed it to this point," he said then.

"Why do we let hate groups dictate how we feel and how we live?" he added. "Hate groups are everywhere. They're just mean people. We just found that out in Charleston."

You, sir, are who needs educating. That flag has stood for something since the day it was first carried by the army of northern Virginia 150 years ago. What it stood for then is what it still means to some now, your revisionist southern apologist history notwithstanding. Wondered who the moron was who voted not to debate. Now I know.

Guy has the conservative politician's disease...open mouth, insert foot! In their zeal to toe the NRA line, they frequently lament about the lack of guns...if only teachers were armed, and bring your gun to church! I'm not the guy who thinks banning guns would end killing, but this isn't the wild west and it seems obvious that more guns doesn't solve the problem.

Just read an article, and found out...its not just that flag at the sc state capitol that has to be debated and voted on:


Late Tuesday, the board of the Citadel voted to ask the South Carolina General Assembly to amend a state law so that the university can remove a Confederate naval flag from a place of honor in the chapel. A law enacted in 2000, the South Carolina Heritage Act, states that “any monument, marker, memorial, school, or street erected or named in honor of the Confederacy or the civil rights movement located on any municipal, county or state property shall not be removed, changed or renamed without the enactment of a joint resolution by a two-thirds vote of the membership of each house of the General Assembly approving same.”

One might believe, judging by the amount of media coverage dedicated to the significance of the flag's removal, that everything WILL be "all good." I agree with the writer:

I'm happy the flag is coming down. But it's a knee jerk reaction. Does anyone believe that had it been removed in 2000 instead of relocated to the confederate soldiers memorial this shooting would not have occurred? Likewise, does anyone believe that any of the gun laws proposed after Sandy Hook would have prevented it?

I agree that hate and violence won't stop with the removal of a symbol, or gun laws but that's not the point....when one perceives something as "wrong", one is obligated to try and fix it. The rebel flag is an affront to not only blacks but all folks who see it as both a reminder of past and present racism. I support rational gun laws, the ones that restrict automatic and semi-automatic weapons, require background checks for everyone desiring to purchase any gun and regulates the sale and transportation of lethal weapons. I also support reforms and increased funding for the mental health system, coupled with a national data base allowing professionals to identify potential violent folks and a process allowing said folks to get treatment. None of this will stop violence, but it will, in my opinion, be steps in the right direction. Again, removal of the rebel flag from government domains isn't a knee-jerk reaction rather a long overdue reform.

of course it won't be all good. and of course the shooting would still have occurred.
that doesn't mean the flag should remain either. it's too bad it took such a thing to get those bozos to take it down, but it's certainly not a cure all or anything of the sort. but it does remove a blight, one that should have been gone long ago. well, it shouldn't have been put back up. it was done as a collective nose thumbing toward dc back when the civil rights movement was gearing up. it wasn't for heritage, it wasn't for pride, it was to send a message.

This this this. I fail to understand why a nation would honor the symbols of an insurrection against the nation. Private citizens, whatever, you want to publicly show you're a bigot by flying the Stars and Bars on your lawn, be my guest. But for state governments to use taxpayer money to do it? What?

The swastika may be a symbol with 12,000 years of history behind it, and for 11,920 of those years it was a positive symbol. But I ain't flying it in my yard, nor do I think Germany should (and of course, Germany banned it years ago).

Though of course, sales of the Confederate battle flag did make for some hilarious Amazon reviews:

RACIST CAR!!



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...evel-pc-idiocy

This is Orwellian

well, it is racist.
they can strip it, or not. it's their choice. i haven't heard anyone say the flag should be banned, barred, not sold, not bought. everyone individual can fly whatever bloody flag they wish.
but it should NOT be on property like state capitols, that's just ridiculous.

Indeed. But what does it matter. We are seriously screwed anyway. Legislators are bought, and what they write into law means nothing. This is all pretend.

:tro:

Please post links to where the decision to stop manufacturing General Lee toys was in any way due to legislation passed by any government, local, state or national. This was a business choice made by a company. They decided continuing to manufacture the toy is bad for business, so they are stopping. This is purely market-driven.

Here are some other toys that are no longer made:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/767254/

My screed was directed at news which developed this morning, not connected with the flag issue but more so with governmental trends. I sincerely apologize for causing any confusion, consternation or offense.

Yes because the General Lee was painted specifically, and for no reason other, than to promulgate hate. To follow your absurd logic, the Network Executives and everyone that ever watched the television show, as well as any actor that ever participated in the making of the program are all guilty racists by proxy as well.

:zz:

wut?

Please block me. Please. I'm begging you.

your reply had nothing to do with what gr said, that's why i put that. it made no sense. and, feel free to go to user settings and do as you wish.

Meanwhile two more churches burned...the one in Macon was confirmed arson and the NC under investigation:zz:


http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...eorgia/396881/

Political correctness is undergoing what is referred to in Latin as "reductio ad absurdum."

:tro:

The funny thing is, there are as many tax paying, liberty loving Americans that find THAT flag offensive (myself NOT included). Good luck getting IT taken down. The hypocrisy of the fringe far left is boundless. So worried about people's feelings and the *hurt* that a flag causes to people who choose to be offended by it. lolololol

apparently you are either choosing to ignore, or just don't care, what the confederate battle flag represented and continues to represent. it has NOTHING in common with the rainbow flag.
one is a people trying to get treated equally, the other flew over a people determined to remain supreme over others, to own them. it continued to show that when it started appearing again, during the civil rights movement.
so, yeah, go ahead and ignore all that history...pretend it's just about 'feelings'. :rolleyes:

I didn't say one had anything at all in common with the other, you simp. I said that there are as many people (mostly deeply religious folks) that choose to be offended by the rainbow flag as there are people who choose to be offended by the stars and bars.

If feelings are the top priority this country has nowadays (you yourself haven't taken 5 minutes to STFU about it in a week) it's hypocritical to embrace one action and bathe in the schadenfreude of another.

But who would expect anything less from you and GR?

Don't bother responding to me. Please.

You have no f.ucking clue what the confederate battle flag represented, you imbecile.

Grant had slaves 3 years after Robert E. Lee had given up his.

Tired of you fat stupid idiots with your pantsuit agenda. What you need to do is get in the f.ucking kitchen and shut the f.uck up with your worthless know-nothing condescension.

You're the biggest idiot on this forum, zig. And that's past, present and future.

Women's liberation gave us George W. Bush and Barack Hussein Obama.

Thanks a lot, ladies. Continue to dazzle us with your knowledge of politics.

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.

FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.

MYTH - Only Southerners owned slaves.

FACT - Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.

Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

FACT - NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.

These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.

FACT - Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.

The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.

The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.

The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.

The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".

FACT - A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".

MYTH - The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.

FACT - The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

MYTH - The United States Flag represented freedom.

FACT - No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.

MYTH - Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

FACT - While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.

MYTH - The South revered slavery.

FACT - A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

MYTH - The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.

FACT - Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.

MYTH - Only the North had men of color in their ranks.

FACT - Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.

Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.

MYTH - The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.

FACT - Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE.

MYTH - The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.

FACT - This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.

The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.

Well, I wasn't aware that the rainbow flag was flying over the grounds of a state government. Folks have the right to display any flag they want in their home or backyard, individuals can carry it in a parade or have it on a bumper sticker but government is supposed to represent all the people, arrogantly flying a symbol offensive to many folks makes a mockery not
only of their feelings but the whole country.