Religion Getting a Bad Rap!
 

Seems to be a common consensus here that religion is the root of most wars, violence and atrocities. However even with the threats coming from Iran wanting to annihilate Israel in the name of religion, looking over the entire 20th century I ask what was the religion of the following individuals: Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Mussolini, Hitler and Leopold II of Belgium in the Congo and in the name of what religious cause were they acting?

Can anyone floor a more despicable fab five then, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler and Lenin regardless of religion? If not I'd suggest atheism may be the most radical religion :)

Pope Urban II and Monarch Ferdinand.

Pretty sure Hitler had some religion thing going on there, something about not liking Jews if I remember correctly.

Mao hated religion and the concept so that kind of counts too.

You kind of made my point going from the 20th century back to the 9th and 15th centuries for players. Not sure there were many atheists back then.

In essence atheism is a religion (with a portion of its congregation radical and despising other religions) and at least in recent centuries it has been far more radical than any other.

Hitler was in no way an atheist.

He was raised by Catholics, and considered himself to be a Christian.

Here it is straight from Hitler's mouth.

"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian, I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."

Atheism is in no way a religion. People that hate religion and act radically against religion have something else going on. I have nothing against any religion and would never suggest that what you might believe is wrong for you. It just won't work for me, faith in the unknown is a concept I cannot get behind, nothing more or less.

Hypocrisy on the other hand should be pointed out, especially among those with domain over their constituents. The church (all churches, not just one) too often preach one doctrine and follow a completely different one, Sikhs excused.

You don't think he was trying to play/con the crowd?

he was an evil genius. I have no idea what he really believed or what he just used at propaganda.

As far as Stalin / lenin / Pol Pot go... you have to understand that communism ruled them. They wanted everythign the same.. everybody "equal" so that they would have complete control. Stalin and lenin were athiests who understood the power of relgion.. I believe a Marx quote is "religion is the opium of the people"... which is right on point IMO. They had to break down differences, religion, education, money, science etc.. between people to make everyone the same, to erase individuality.

All of these guys you name were raised deeply in religion. They were also evil, and promoted communism. They didnt start wars in the name of atheism.

To me, the majority of religions were started to promote power and greed (especially the Catholic Church) Look at radical Islam today... bin Laden used Islam as propaganda to infuriate middle eastern muslims who were already poor and brought down by their governments. He gave them a movement (the jihad).. something to gather around to blame everyone else for their problems. Stalin, pol pot, etc. they all wanted personal power and greed. All these wars and terrible acts, whether in the name of god or not, had a lot in common.

Can one be both atheist and believe in deism?
Or once a deist suggests there may be a God (sic god) it disqualifies them from being considered atheist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...f_Adolf_Hitler

deism and atheism are two different things. atheism is the rejection of deities.

Well said and I agree. However I believe the roots of religion are based in man's struggle/need to understand the beginning/where they came from and indeed man needing an opiate (a hope of afterlife or reincarnation if you will) as a way with dealing day-to-day struggles which, I'm sure included the threat of dying.

That or aliens landed and played a bad practical joke. ;)

I agree completely that your reason is why people follow relgion today, and throughout world history. People are afraid or dying, they want this world to mean something more than what it does. It is also a place to go and feel like you belong.. other people support your same thoughts and ideas.

Now I dont think those reasons are why religions are created though.. I personally think the majority of the time it has to do with power struggles. What greater way to control the masses then by telling them.. and getting them to have "faith".. that if you dont believe this, or do that, you will be damned to hell for eternity. If you have faith in what I tell you, you will have eternal bliss and happiness in heaven.

But isn't Deism the mere acceptance that there MAY be a God, not the acceptance of a God? If a deist is on the side there probably isn't a god does that not begin to lean him/her towards atheism?

I was born and raised catholic, rarely ever attend church, support abortion as an individual choice, am skeptical of every priest that comes in contact with my nephews as a molester, support gay marriage but leave it up to the church as to whether they want to conduct ceremonies, and completely reject the belief the Pope can make no religious mistakes but still consider myself catholic. Geez I just realized I'm a Deist.

Anyway guarantee the church will welcome me back provided I still have cash. :$:;)

from what i've read about deists and deism, it's the a belief that a being created the world and all in it, and then left it to take care of itself. so, deists don't pray to a god, they don't think whoever the creator was is involved to take prayers.


as for hitler, et al, they used any and every means at their disposal to get and/or attempt to keep power. religion had a hand in it, whether as a way to identify enemies or to conjure support for their agendas.

when pope urban called a crusade, he was looking for a huge army to do the churches dirty work in trying to keep territories.

i think many go to church as a way to socialize; i think some go because they feel a need. but as for who truly believes, i think if people were completely honest when asked, that the amount of people who actually believe in god would be quite low.

Riotesque!

I think you'll be shocked........unless 8/9 people in America are liars!



http://www.gallup.com/poll/147887/am...lieve-god.aspx

like i said, completely honest. i've read articles that discuss the fear of being 'found out' that one doesn't necessarily believe. then there's conversations, countless times when people have said they go to church to 'play it safe'. they don't really have faith, but just in case, they go to church.
people don't want to be different, they don't want to risk being ostracized if they don't exhibit a belief.
and here, in the bible belt, most people go to church as a way to socialize.

Here's a question Carnac the Magnificent.

Is Obama, Romney, Reid, Pelosi, the Bush's all lying about their belief in God?

If not which one's are?

Or are they all part of the 10% you think believe in God.

and again this post has Riot stink all over it.

altho it is stated there shall be no religious test for office, most would never step out on that limb and say they don't have a faith. i remember reading that people said that jefferson was an atheist, he had a tough row to hoe because of that claim. even then, religion was a bone of contention. why do you suppose it's specifically listed in voting rights amendments.
and yeah, how dare i suggest pols would lie. :rolleyes:

i'm not quite sure why you're getting so defensive about this topic. yes, there is a consensus, and not just on this board, that religion has caused and now causes a lot of ills. it's a deserved reputation. i didn't give it that rep, it gave it to itself.
i think some people are good people, and would be with or without a specific religion to follow. and there are plenty of hypocrites who are in a religion as well. i just know what my experiences are, what i've found in people, and what i've found throughout the histories i've read.
sorry if it bothers you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew..._b_684551.html


try reading that dell, perhaps it'll help you to understand where i'm coming from. or maybe not.
maybe you'll just call me carnac or riotesque some more. whatever.

You're coming to the belief 9 of 10 really don't believe in God based on one's actions not words then.

So using that logic 9 of 10 cigarette smokers do not believe smoking causes cancer and death.

Compare: If you really believed that cigarettes cause cancer, would you light up?

first off, 9/10 isn't something you can extrapolate for all cases/questions/scenarios based on one survey.

i'd imagine that most smokers think they won't get cancer. typically, when someone engages in a risky behavior, they don't really consider that they are at risk.
for instance, if i rode a motorcycle, i wouldn't necessarily be afraid of riding it, or think i'd be in an accident. however, i'm not happy at all knowing my son owns one. you don't worry about yourself in those types of situations. smokers know full well the risk, and decide to engate in it anyway.

and it is both words and deeds that tell me what people are like. i mean, if people really believed-why do people willingly break many of the ten commandments on a regular basis? why do people struggle so hard to live longer, if they really know heaven and a better life is waiting? why would people say 'i'm going to church just in case'-if god is all knowing, wouldn't he know they're just hedging their bets??

i used to smoke- i never took the dangers into thought. and i didn't quit because of warning labels, i quit because i no longer wanted to pay the price, which was about to jump.

Why do so many people ask for last rights on their death beds? Are they taking the lie of believing in God to the grave?

Why do people go to confession? Adorn their lawns with the Virgin Mary? Hang crucifixes in their homes? Get married in the church? Give their money willingly to the church? Raise their children with the belief of God? Baptize their children? Memorize the stupid song 'this little light of mine' not to mention kumbaya.

Quite the charade a good portion of this country is engaged in if your assumptions are correct.

lol
yes, a great many are playing charades. why do they do it? it's what they're supposed to do. maybe they find reassurance from those actions. i'm sorry if this is a struggle for you. some people have death bed conversions, many are hedging their bets (and it's last rites, not rights). then there are folks like my mother in law, who is many, many things....including a hateful, racist, bigoted homophobe...who has a statue of the virgin mary on her front lawn. she is in church on every sunday and holy day...why, she even showed just how 'nice' she can be by repeatedly asking the visiting priest from nigeria to dinner. the first time she asked, he said no. same as the second. so she figured she was 'safe' and kept asking..well, he felt more comfortable after being there a bit, and accepted. so then, she showed how she really felt when she apologized to the others that were coming because he'd be there!!!! lmao. they were all appalled. yeah, her true colors came out.
it was the funniest thing i can remember in some time. she never asked him again after that.
if you sleep in a garage, you don't start calling yourself a car, do you? but because many go to church and play the part, they call themselves christian-and they really aren't. matter of fact, a study showed evangelists are more prone to be racist, divorced, bigot, etc. so yeah, that's one of many reasons religion gets a bad rap.

Jerry Sandusky went to church every Sunday.. Just sayin.

Support group.

I really never thought I was a part of a minority group who believe in God.

What an epiphany I've had!

Even though in my heart and mind I believe in God; I don't always act as a perfect Christian so I really don't believe in God. :zz:

And I'm back with the majority even though I maintain I believe in God

Jeez I just thought of 9-11. By the thought process followed here, it was one big lie by the media. The hijackers didn't kill themselves for Allah, they drank, missed prayers etc. etc. so they didn't believe. They were just plain bad, evil, men and just happened to falsely call themselves muslims.

I get it now the muslim men who mistreat women aren't bad because of their religion as most are lying about it and don't even believe. In fact they aren't even worthy of being called muslims.

Sorry all, I was wrong all along about their religion. It's their culture!

wow, i'm glad you had that revelation. it's spot on.

It's still tough though as I still really truly believe in God despite my actions at times!

Forgive me but i laughed...:)

So it took all this time for Dell to get around to revealing this thread is just more attempted justification for his bigotry and hate of Muslims?

Probably more important if God still "believes" in you, despite your actions at times.

you're making a simple mistake. i'm talking in generalizations, and you're taking it personally. obviously there are people who believe.

yes, it's easy to laugh at my monster in law. she's a hideous human being.

Unless you act like she's hideous everytime you speak to her, and your husband, kids everytime you speak to them about her, you really don't believe she's hideous. ;):zz:

Just sayin touche!

Maybe the husband and kids say the same thing....jus sayin..:)

and maybe the dinner she spoke of was the last supper?

I hope it was.......

i haven't spoken to her in a long time. haven't seen her since.....i think eric's graduation. that was over two years ago.
and they live less than an hour away. my daughter lives in the same town as her, never goes to see her.

she's a singular monstrosity. everyone stay away. sad really....

and she can't cook, so it's funny about the last supper. we always wondered every time we did eat there if it would turn out to be our last meal.

Good to hear as I have a couple such people in my family. A step grandma I haven't spoke to since 1976 and a sperm donor I haven't talk to or seen since my wedding OMG 22 years ago.

Though my belief in God is still in question the aborting of these two from my life is not. :)