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-   -   The Chicago Public School Teachers Demand 30% Raise (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47110)

dellinger63 06-11-2012 04:51 PM

The Chicago Public School Teachers Demand 30% Raise
 
Just voted to strike. WTF? I missed all of the articles touting CPS’s recent success? How much have standardized test scores increased?

How many here would either be laughed at or fired if the same demand was made to your employer? Yet in an inmates take the asylum moment the Chicago teachers are.

How about this? Stop screwing taxpayers and especially property owners in Chicago. The 92% who still have jobs certainly haven’t received a 30% raise and the remainder is unemployed.

Instead of collectively paying everyone the same. Success needs to be rewarded and failure removed based on an individual’s performance. The current and proposed contracts are certainly unfair as it rewards teachers who are failing the same as those who are succeeding.

When an employer, private or public collectively pays their employees they take away a good deal of incentive and motivation for an employee to perform above the norm. The working too hard are deemed brown nosers or told to ‘not kill the job’. It also reduces quality of end product while simultaneously inflating its cost. Sadly in the case of most public school teachers, the end product is a student who has neither the language nor math skills to go any further than high school yet many (at least in Chicago, 50% of the students who don’t drop out) have a sheepskin falsely stating they do.

For the sake of future students let’s break the practice of unfair rewarding and instead pay the good teachers what they deserve and realize there are teachers who are failures and deserve to be fired and replaced. Giving in to the union’s demand and keeping the status quo of accepting failure is unfair to the taxpayer and damages students, many for life. Chicago could learn a lot from the recent success experienced by Wisconsin sans Milwaukee.

Riot 06-11-2012 06:02 PM

They have voted to strike if negotiations break down this summer. They have voted to authorize the strike before negotiations, which is a good thing. There is an independent fact-finder that will help both sides come to agreement.

Teachers did not receive the 4% raise they were promised last year (it was revoked) and now they have a 20% increase in their classroom work.

This is why unions were formed - to keep employers from abusing employees by denying raises that were promised, and demanding 1/5 more work for the same pay. They will negotiate, and meet in the middle. Hopefully the city won't "revoke" the raises they agree to. Like they just did last year. That can make employees angry enough to, you know, strike.

Quote:

The union is proposing smaller class sizes, improved job
security, and a raise to go along with a new curriculum, a new
evaluation system and a 20 percent increase in instructional
time.

Lewis said teachers had been offered a 2 percent annualraise. According to Brizard, teachers have asked for a 30 percent raise over the next two years.

Brizard said that with a projected $3 billion deficit over
the next three years, the school system cannot afford such a
raise, but that teachers will receive a "fair" salary increase.

Brizard said the public schools are not changing its class size
policy, and has offered union members more planning and
professional development time.

The Chicago Public Schools angered Chicago teachers last
year by revoking a scheduled 4 percent pay raise.

Mayor Rahm Emanuel also has antagonized the teachers' union with his
aggressive push for a longer school day and support for
non-union charter schools.

Coach Pants 06-12-2012 07:49 AM

They deserve a 4% pay cut. Look at all of the murders in that city this year. They have failed. A miserable f.ucking failure. In fact all teachers under the Department of Education umbrella deserve max pay of $7.00 an hour and the administrators deserve a bag of rice and a gallon of water.

F.uck off with your disingenuous liberal bleeding heart campaign for teachers. This country is finished because of public education. You god-damned sissies let the kids take over.

Clip-Clop 06-12-2012 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868227)
They have voted to strike if negotiations break down this summer. They have voted to authorize the strike before negotiations, which is a good thing. There is an independent fact-finder that will help both sides come to agreement.

Teachers did not receive the 4% raise they were promised last year (it was revoked) and now they have a 20% increase in their classroom work.

This is why unions were formed - to keep employers from abusing employees by denying raises that were promised, and demanding 1/5 more work for the same pay. They will negotiate, and meet in the middle. Hopefully the city won't "revoke" the raises they agree to. Like they just did last year. That can make employees angry enough to, you know, strike.

Shortest school day, shortest school year of any major city. Demanding raises and approving to strike before negotiating is typical union nonsense. Modern day thuggery once again.

Ocala Mike 06-12-2012 09:12 AM

The Chicago Public School Teachers Demand 30% Raise
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 868266)

Look at all of the murders in that city this year.

One way to reduce classroom size, Coach!

Coach Pants 06-12-2012 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike (Post 868278)
One way to reduce classroom size, Coach!

:tro:

dellinger63 06-12-2012 10:43 AM

The sad thing is the complete disconnect the union brainwashed Chicago Public School teachers have with reality. The City of Chicago and the State of Illinois are not only broke, both are severely in debt, there is no money for any raise what more 30% collectively. I heard an interview with the head of the teachers union (who obviously does not believe in healthy food or exercise, at least for herself) where she was asked if longer school days would help educate children? She quickly responded no!

Can’t believe the reporter didn’t ask, “If that is the case and longer school days will not help the children will shorter days work? And if that’s the case will lowering pay work? How about relieving the teachers of their union all-together? How much do all the union officials, buildings, vacations, cars perks etc amount to every year?”

Sure some teachers deserve a raise just as some teachers don’t and some even need to be fired. None of them deserve the con-job given to them by their union. Job performance rather than job seniority should be the predominant factor when deciding pay scales, you know like it is in the private ‘real world’.

Honu 06-12-2012 02:04 PM

I am of the belief that people who's salarys are paid by our tax dollars should not be able to hold us hostage and deny services. Private sector Unions are diffirent in that if they go on strike I have the option of doing buisness somewhere else, which I do.

dellinger63 06-12-2012 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honu (Post 868315)
I am of the belief that people who's salarys are paid by our tax dollars should not be able to hold us hostage and deny services. Private sector Unions are diffirent in that if they go on strike I have the option of doing buisness somewhere else, which I do.

Pres. Reagan and Gov. Scott Walker fit that bill. This Walker guy has a future beyond WI

Riot 06-12-2012 02:51 PM

"Teachers are the cause of all evil"

Unbelievably gullible sheep.

Honu 06-12-2012 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868322)
"Teachers are the cause of all evil"

Unbelievably gullible sheep.

Nope, just their Unions and their coffering ways. Why should someone who is basically paid to do a job with private citizens tax dollars be allowed to deny said tax payer the service? We will have to agree to disagree.

Riot 06-12-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 868271)
Shortest school day, shortest school year of any major city. Demanding raises and approving to strike before negotiating is typical union nonsense. Modern day thuggery once again.

As opposed to negotiating a raise with the union, signing a contract promising that raise, then reneging? You know, what the non-union side actually did?

Seems that makes them lying contract breakers, no?

BTW, "thuggery" means violence. You really need to stop deliberately misusing the term in a transparent attempt to falsely demonize kindergarten teachers.

Clip-Clop 06-12-2012 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868325)
As opposed to negotiating a raise with the union, signing a contract promising that raise, then reneging? You know, what the non-union side actually did?

Seems that makes them lying contract breakers, no?

BTW, "thuggery" means violence. You really need to stop deliberately misusing the term in a transparent attempt to falsely demonize kindergarten teachers.

Is it not an act of violence to deny a child their right to an education because of your union greed. I would say so.

Coach Pants 06-12-2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868322)
"Teachers are the cause of all evil"

Unbelievably gullible sheep.

Yes they are. The union protects the bad ones and thus the good ones in the union are equally bad because they are the f.ucking sheep allowing it, you dense cu.nt. You are defending a failing liberal/socialist government program.

Just shut up and go away, imbecile. Go cut some cat nuts off.

Riot 06-12-2012 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honu (Post 868324)
Nope, just their Unions and their coffering ways. Why should someone who is basically paid to do a job with private citizens tax dollars be allowed to deny said tax payer the service? We will have to agree to disagree.

No person can, or should be, forced to work when the other side has broken the work agreement.

Riot 06-12-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 868327)
Yes they are. The union protects the bad ones and thus the good ones in the union are equally bad because they are the f.ucking sheep allowing it, you dense cu.nt. You are defending a failing liberal/socialist government program.

Just shut up and go away, imbecile.

Funny, I think you're an imbecile, too :tro: But not a very bright one. And unbelievably limited in vocabulary.

Riot 06-12-2012 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 868326)
Is it not an act of violence to deny a child their right to an education because of your union greed. I would say so.

No. It is not an act of violence. And what is greedy - as it's certainly not violent - about forcing the person who signs a contract with you to uphold their end of the legal agreement? That's call "capitalistic free market".

You approve of being able to break contracts you sign with people?

Coach Pants 06-12-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868329)
Funny, I think you're an imbecile, too :tro: But not a very bright one. And unbelievably limited in vocabulary.

You just insulted the majority of posters on this site. If you're so god-damned smart you would have the awareness that this place is littered with idiots.

And, in fact, I've never claimed to be super intelligent nor bragged about academic achievements. You, on the other hand, crowbar it in on the regular.

You are f.ucking dumb. Beneath the majority on this site. Even nascar has more sense than you.

Honu 06-12-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868328)
No person can, or should be, forced to work when the other side has broken the work agreement.

OK I can agree to that. But what if there is no money to pay them the wage increase? What if the increase was based upon job performance which most jobs are in the private sector? Then how do you justify paying a salary increase when the numbers show you arent doing a very good job.
I know in my line of work that raises and bonus's are based upon job performance and attitude. Like I said we can agree to disagree, I say that in the hope that this discussion stays above the belt.

Clip-Clop 06-12-2012 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868328)
No person can, or should be, forced to work when the other side has broken the work agreement.

No one is forced to work, you choose your path and if you do not like it change it don't hold children hostage.

Riot 06-12-2012 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 868333)
You just insulted the majority of posters on this site.

No I didn't. I just pointed out what a cursing loser you are. You're a pathetic basement dwelling attack rat. Go away, sad little troll.

Coach Pants 06-12-2012 03:19 PM

Lets defend and demand raises for our public school teachers and administrators. They are doing a fine, fine job preparing our children for the future. Teaching them how to be independent, giving them accurate history lessons, teaching them about their government.

Fantastic work. Hell, give them a 100% wage and force the parents to pay for it by doing maintenance work on school grounds, driving buses, giving the teachers oral pleasure, etc.

It's our fault, the private sector working class. We are the ones who spent all of the money.

:tro:

Riot 06-12-2012 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honu (Post 868334)
OK I can agree to that. But what if there is no money to pay them the wage increase?

Then the taxpayers shouldn't have promised to pay them. That's what negotiation is all about. Negotiation goes both ways, and unions don't want their jobs to go away.

For example, in Wisconsin, the governor said there was no money, so immediately the unions agreed to a massive cut in pay, benefits and pension.

The union is simply a legal representative of all the employees, so each employee doesn't need to negotiate separately.

Teachers have negotiated - by the taxpayers - agreements for performance. If the teachers don't reach them, they can lose their jobs. It works both ways.

Demonizing unions is as silly as demonizing taxpayers.

Riot 06-12-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 868335)
No one is forced to work, you choose your path and if you do not like it change it don't hold children hostage.

Teachers chose to accept a job where a specific salary and other job parameters were contractually agreed upon. Both parties have to hold to the agreement.

If the other side breaks the contract, teachers don't have to work anyway.

99% of the time, however, they continue to do so, while new agreements are reached.

Coach Pants 06-12-2012 03:25 PM

Lets not educate ourselves. Just give all public employees raises during a depression. Lets continue to blame one man who was a puppet for all of the world's problems. Lets re-elect a guy who has made things far worse. And if we don't elect him lets elect the guy who won't do any better or make a bit of difference.

Lets just take everything from the suckers who actually pay taxes. Fu.ck us. F.uck us hard. Just let us have jobs and a f.ucking pizza on the weekend. F.uck books, f.uck newspapers. Let's watch Dancing with the Stars and check Huffy Post on our phone and get all slacktivist on social media about how f.ucking cool our President is. He sings old soul songs for crying out loud!!

Clip-Clop 06-12-2012 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868338)
Then the taxpayers shouldn't have promised to pay them. That's what negotiation is all about. Negotiation goes both ways, and unions don't want their jobs to go away.

For example, in Wisconsin, the governor said there was no money, so immediately the unions agreed to a massive cut in pay, benefits and pension.

The union is simply a legal representative of all the employees, so each employee doesn't need to negotiate separately.

Teachers have negotiated - by the taxpayers - agreements for performance. If the teachers don't reach them, they can lose their jobs. It works both ways.

Demonizing unions is as silly as demonizing taxpayers.

The taxpayer representation was more often than not put in place by the unions. They (NJEA) gave the governorship of NEW Jersey to one of the biggest scumbags in the history of politics (however much Uncle Joe loves him it is true) what is he supposed to do after that?

Riot 06-12-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 868341)
The taxpayer representation was more often than not put in place by the unions. They (NJEA) gave the governorship of NEW Jersey to one of the biggest scumbags in the history of politics (however much Uncle Joe loves him it is true) what is he supposed to do after that?

The taxpayers choose who to represent them in government. They are responsible for their destiny (well, until the Supreme Court said no, people with the most money are in charge)

Taxpayers have hired public school teachers since before many towns were in states. When towns hire hundreds of teachers, the teachers are legally allowed to band together and elect representatives to negotiate on their behalf. Just like the taxpayers have representatives that negotiate on their behalf.

Clip-Clop 06-12-2012 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868343)
The taxpayers choose who to represent them in government. They are responsible for their destiny (well, until the Supreme Court said no, people with the most money are in charge)

Taxpayers have hired public school teachers since before many towns were in states. When towns hire hundreds of teachers, the teachers are legally allowed to band together and elect representatives to negotiate on their behalf. Just like the taxpayers have representatives that negotiate on their behalf.

They should negotiate better contracts then. Or should be able to look at the math and say this is totally unsustainable perhaps we should think more long term...
No comment on the NJEA making Corzine the gov?
Or trying to do the same with Barret in WI.

Clip-Clop 06-12-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 868340)
Lets not educate ourselves. Just give all public employees raises during a depression. Lets continue to blame one man who was a puppet for all of the world's problems. Lets re-elect a guy who has made things far worse. And if we don't elect him lets elect the guy who won't do any better or make a bit of difference.

Lets just take everything from the suckers who actually pay taxes. Fu.ck us. F.uck us hard. Just let us have jobs and a f.ucking pizza on the weekend. F.uck books, f.uck newspapers. Let's watch Dancing with the Stars and check Huffy Post on our phone and get all slacktivist on social media about how f.ucking cool our President is. He sings old soul songs for crying out loud!!

So which side are you on?
:)

Riot 06-12-2012 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 868344)
They should negotiate better contracts then. Or should be able to look at the math and say this is totally unsustainable perhaps we should think more long term...
No comment on the NJEA making Corzine the gov?
Or trying to do the same with Barret in WI.

I have no knowledge of Corzine and the NJEA.

Barret was not the union-supported and endorsed candidate in the Dem Wisconsin primary. He was not the union choice.

Unions do think long-term. That's why they accept 4% pay raises, and are paid less than in the private sector for the most part. Unions have given us a middle class and massive employee protections that every employee in the United States, private or public, has benefited from (weekends, minimum wage, workplace protection, health care, vacations, 40-hour workweek, etc). The unions in Wisconsin immediately gave up massive pay, benefits and pension agreements to help the state budget (you forget, they are taxpayers, too)

The fact is, that where management and employees have good working relations, and everybody is happy and working towards their goal, being in a union, or not, doesn't really matter.

When employees stick together, they have greater strength, against abusive employers, than as individuals. Where there is no management abuse or massive disagreement, there are no problems, union or not. Where there is abuse, employees sticking together protects themselves, their incomes, their families, their jobs, the middle class and workers. That's not evil. That's awesome.

Clip-Clop 06-12-2012 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868346)
I have no knowledge of Corzine and the NJEA.

Barret was not the union-supported and endorsed candidate in the Dem Wisconsin primary. He was not the union choice.

Unions do think long-term. That's why they accept 4% pay raises, and are paid less than in the private sector for the most part. Unions have given us a middle class and massive employee protections that every employee in the United States, private or public, has benefited from (weekends, minimum wage, workplace protection, health care, vacations, 40-hour workweek, etc). The unions in Wisconsin immediately gave up massive pay, benefits and pension agreements to help the state budget (you forget, they are taxpayers, too)

The fact is, that where management and employees have good working relations, and everybody is happy and working towards their goal, being in a union, or not, doesn't really matter.

When employees stick together, they have greater strength, against abusive employers, than as individuals. Where there is no management abuse or massive disagreement, there are no problems, union or not. Where there is abuse, employees sticking together protects themselves, their incomes, their families, their jobs, the middle class and workers. That's not evil. That's awesome.

When talented individuals are grouped with and forced to be treated the same as slackers that is a good thing then? Makes sense in your world I suppose.

Riot 06-12-2012 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop (Post 868353)
When talented individuals are grouped with and forced to be treated the same as slackers that is a good thing then? Makes sense in your world I suppose.

No and nope.

If management fails to negotiate themselves a position that enables them to fire unproductive employees, that's sure as hell not the employees fault ;)

Danzig 06-12-2012 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 868337)
Lets defend and demand raises for our public school teachers and administrators. They are doing a fine, fine job preparing our children for the future. Teaching them how to be independent, giving them accurate history lessons, teaching them about their government.

Fantastic work. Hell, give them a 100% wage and force the parents to pay for it by doing maintenance work on school grounds, driving buses, giving the teachers oral pleasure, etc.

It's our fault, the private sector working class. We are the ones who spent all of the money.

:tro:

:tro:

Honu 06-12-2012 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 868338)
Then the taxpayers shouldn't have promised to pay them. That's what negotiation is all about. Negotiation goes both ways, and unions don't want their jobs to go away.

For example, in Wisconsin, the governor said there was no money, so immediately the unions agreed to a massive cut in pay, benefits and pension.

The union is simply a legal representative of all the employees, so each employee doesn't need to negotiate separately.

Teachers have negotiated - by the taxpayers - agreements for performance. If the teachers don't reach them, they can lose their jobs. It works both ways.

Demonizing unions is as silly as demonizing taxpayers.


The tax payers agreed or the politicians that are supposed to be the representative of the people footing the bill? Do the tax payers actually get to agree to Union demands or just the local government? Ive seen shows on Dateline and 20/20 about teachers detention rooms where teachers go every school day and do nothing because the district cant fire them because of their Union contract but wont let them teach for either bad job performance or other violations.

dellinger63 09-04-2012 11:09 AM

I was wrong. For too long I've blamed parents of failing students for their failure when all along, at least in Chicago, it's obvious now it's the teachers.

The crew of teachers that showed up Sunday, threatening strike in the Daley Center were obviously unable to maintain themselves much less teach or God forbid serve as role models to their students.

Two Questions; why did they pick the Daley Center and not City Hall (directly across the street) to protest? And why were there protest signs in espanol? Must have been the Picassso and using the word horas.

With the first day of school comes the threat of a strike come next Monday. Why because the teachers care! :wf

Fire them all and hire only the good ones back. We owe it to our children and simply throwing more money at bad teachers only compounds and solidifies the problem.

Rudeboyelvis 09-04-2012 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 868340)
Lets not educate ourselves. Just give all public employees raises during a depression. Lets continue to blame one man who was a puppet for all of the world's problems. Lets re-elect a guy who has made things far worse. And if we don't elect him lets elect the guy who won't do any better or make a bit of difference.

Lets just take everything from the suckers who actually pay taxes. Fu.ck us. F.uck us hard. Just let us have jobs and a f.ucking pizza on the weekend. F.uck books, f.uck newspapers. Let's watch Dancing with the Stars and check Huffy Post on our phone and get all slacktivist on social media about how f.ucking cool our President is. He sings old soul songs for crying out loud!!

I had forgotten how incredibly awesome this rant was - Glad you're back Coach :tro:

dellinger63 09-10-2012 10:00 AM

Well the teachers decided to strike, not because of money (they’re offered a 16% pay raise) but because of the job evaluation process. The board wants to grade 45% of teachers performance based on their students’ test scores. Get this, the teachers union thinks that would lead to more cheating.
Numbers behind the scene reveal how pitiful the Chicago school system is. 21K teachers to teach 400K students or one teacher for every 19 students. A $5.1 billion total budget divided up between 400K students comes to $12,800.00 per student. And the pie in the face caveat is CPS graduates just over 50% or its high school students with a good portion of its graduates needing further work to enter college. The teachers were asked not to picket schools acting as day care centers and they responded by picketing those schools using drums to disrupt any meaningful activities going on inside.

CPS is simply a microcosm of what’s wrong with government getting involved in anything but governing. Schools need to be schools and not restaurants and day-care centers.

For the sake of the students both present and in the future we need to provide school vouchers at the least. Better yet, privatize the entire school system and let private/parochial schools do what they’ve been doing all along.

Coach Pants 09-10-2012 10:41 AM

Performance-based jobs are rampant with cheating.

Riot is the google queen. She'll find some stories about teachers fixing test scores.

The revolution is televised. Chicago gets what it deserves. One of the most corrupt cities in the world.

OldDog 09-10-2012 10:56 AM

Meanwhile, the city’s 118 charter schools are not affected by the strike.
:)


It has been suggested that the union may be going on strike for the sole purpose of allowing Obama to intervene and settle the labor dispute, painting him as a uniter, or perhaps even as being tough on unions. This is Chicago, after all.

my miss storm cat 09-10-2012 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants (Post 868337)
Lets defend and demand raises for our public school teachers and administrators. They are doing a fine, fine job preparing our children for the future. Teaching them how to be independent, giving them accurate history lessons, teaching them about their government.

Fantastic work. Hell, give them a 100% wage and force the parents to pay for it by doing maintenance work on school grounds, driving buses, giving the teachers oral pleasure, etc.

It's our fault, the private sector working class. We are the ones who spent all of the money.

:tro:

:tro:


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